Rather bizarre readings!

[Pink&Perky]

Hello, I'm new to this forum but I've had borderline diabetes type 2 for many years and never taken medication. To cut a long story short, my latest clinic results caused the nurse to say I'd have to start on medication but I persuaded her to let me have three months to get my levels back to what is normal for me.

So, for the first time I've been monitoring my blood with an Activa Nano. However, I'm getting readings that seem to make little sense. Here are the first two days:

Day One
One-two hours after a big breakfast = 10.8 10mmol/l
Day Two
before anything in morning 10.8
after breakfast - 10 mins after - 11.4
before dinner 10.8
immediately after dinner 9.3

So my blood glucose goes down (?) after eating. And first thing in the morning it hasn't dropped from a daytime reading?? And it stays at 10.8 regardless of anything I do?

Can this be correct; should I go on using this meter and can I rely on results like this? What does it prove one way or the other?
Tricia

 

[ladybird64]

Hi Tricia and welcome

I'm not a doctor but with levels like that, I think you have probably joined the ranks of the full - blown diabetics club - the one that nobody wants to join!

A couple of points until someone more knowledgable comes along. Often an early morning (pre-brekkie) test is quite high, surprisingly so. It is called dawn phenomenon, otherwise known as Dp and you will find out more if you search for the posts here.

Another thing is that you are testing in a bit of an irrational way! Best time to test is 2 hours after eating your meals (you can test pre-meal if you want), there is no point in testing ten minutes after you have eaten. Reason being (I think!), in a non -diabetic person, their glucose levels would have returned to their pre-meal state after 2 hours, those with diabetes often don't, or the level is raised..it gives a better picture of what is going on.

It is possible for some to reduce their levels by diet and exercise alone (I did) but their is nothing to fear from the usual drug given out at diagnosis which is Metformin. It has some very good preventative properties against cardiovascular disease and after learning this, I actually requested it from my GP!

I'm sure that Daisy one of the mods, or other forum members Xyzzy or Grazer will post some dietary advice for you shortly.

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Pink&Perky (great name btw :lol and welcome

Saw my name mentioned so thought I'd let you know what I did. I was diagnosed in December last year and using the advice I found on this forum I got my blood sugar levels back to normal within around a couple of months or so and I have also normalised my cholesterol levels and blood pressure as well. I have now lost nearly 4 stone in weight too. My doctor is very pleased how I am getting on and has advised me to keep doing what I have been doing since it's obviously working really well. Not a cure as I still have to be very careful what I eat but I feel loads better than I did.

Diet wise its really easy. Just drastically cut down or better cut out all things with plain sugar, so biscuits, cakes, sugar in tea and coffee, pure fruit juices, non diet versions of soft drinks. Next and really importantly try halving starchy foods like rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, cereals and any other flour based products. Replace what's now missing with extra meat, fish, eggs, cheese and especially vegetables. Vegetables that grow above ground are best although most of us find carrots fine. Things like yoghurt are fine as is a small amount of fresh fruit. I find the ones that end in "berry" are the best. If you don't mind artificial sweeteners things like Diet Coke are fine to drink. On the starchy foods that are left swap try brown basmati rice instead of white and brown or tri-colour pasta. The bread that most recommend is actually Bergen soya bread but some do ok with wholemeal as well.

The above diet is close to one you would be one recommended to try by the Swedish Health service. It was introduced in that country last year and the American health service and several other countries health services recommend something very similar for Type 2 diabetics. In the UK the diet guidelines are now over 30 years old and are only gradually being updated. As the UK is lagging behind you may find what I and other forum members recommend is different to what your are told is a good diet for you follow.

I see you've got a meter which is brilliant as most of us find that they really help. The important measurement is the one two hours after you have eaten and you should be aiming to get under 8 as that's what the safety guidelines say. Apart from that period between eating and two hours after when you test then at all other times the guidelines say to aim to be between 4 and 7. To start with you may find it difficult until the dietary changes you make kick in. In some this happens in days and in others it can take many weeks. In the meantime a good way of doing things is to test just before you eat and then two hours after and try to aim for both numbers to be roughly the same. If you do that then day by day you should start to see your overall levels begin to drop to normal. When you can get the vast majority of your two hour after eating readings under 8 then it's job done although some of us then decide to try for even stricter targets but that is optional on how you feel about things.

That 8 value is where the dangers of complications do begin to occur according to diabetic experts. So testing to see what you can and can't tolerate food wise is very important. The only problem is every diabetic is different so my earlier advice to halve starchy foods is just a rough guide. You may find you need to eat less than half (like me) or that you can eat more than half like others.

As you get into it all and read around the forum you may see people talking about carb counting. If you want to understand what that is just ask. It is a powerful weapon that a diabetic can use to control their condition and one that many of us use to great effect.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

Regards

Steve

PS Here's two good links about what's good to eat.

First is the lady doctor who's low carb / low GI recommendations seem to form the basis of what's recommended in Sweden

http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=my_lowcarb_dietary_programe_in

Second is a good beginners guide to low carb regimes that are excellent for reducing blood sugar levels and losing weight.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

 

[Pink&Perky]

Hi, thanks for your comments. I was 10.5 first thing this morning. As for low-carb eating you are definitely preaching to the choir here as I'm totally committed to that, and have been for many years (ever since I was first diagnosed) BUT I fell off the wagon a few years ago when I married a man who loves to bake and cook, and loves serving big meals, and who was a carb addict.

I put on weight, and all the good work I'd done over the years, low-carb eating, was undone.

Now we have both got it in check, but I wonder if it's too late. Despite cutting back on all the sugary carby things and eating properly, despite my drinking lots of water, taking cinnamon and chromium and so on, my glucose levels seem stuck at 10.

But here's the thing - on the diabetes website they have a comparison chart of mmol compared to the Hb (whatever) that they do in the surgery blood test and in that chart 10.8 for mmol is "good control" but 10 in the Hb test is "poor". DUH. The diabetic nurse told me my levels have gone up from 7 (normal for me) to 9, then 10 recently, for no apparent reason.

BUT, my point is this: according to that chart, 10.8 mmol in my home test, would be equivalent to 7 in the surgery test, so am I back to normal?

Anyway, I can't write more as I have a virus and feel awful, so I'm going back to bed.
Tricia

 

[Grazer]

BUT, my point is this: according to that chart, 10.8 mmol in my home test, would be equivalent to 7 in the surgery test, so am I back to normal?

Simple answer is no. You are comparing two different types of tests. The HbA1c looks at the average blood glucose levels you have experienced over the previous 2 months. It can sometimes be done in the surgery, but they normally have to send off to a lab for the results. The tests you do on your meter are the same as the nurse can do instantly on her meter, and simply take your reading at that specific time.
An HbA1c of 7 is diagnostic of full type 2 diabetes. Some sites describe that level in existing diabetics as "good control", but leave out the words "for a diabetic". They say this because some diabetics have HbA1c figures far higher. Most of us here wouldn't consider it "good control" and would try to get it lower.
I think you need to go to your surgery for a proper diagnostic test to establish your state of diabetes. The levels you quote of always about 10 on the meter on a low-carb diet are too high.

 

[Pink&Perky]

Hi, I'm feeling a little better, so reading through your replies - thanks!

First off the bat, a sort of off-topic remark, you said: "If you don't mind artificial sweeteners things like Diet Coke are fine to drink. " I used to drink Zero, and other non-sugar drinks, but I read last year that research had shown that sweeteners trick your system into releasing glucose anyway, presumably because they read it as "hey up, here's something sweet" so the effect on your body is detrimental anyway - because of that, and also I'm trying not to drink anything but water and tea/coffee I gave up soft drinks almost entirely.

But the bizarre story continues. It's almost as if there is a malfunction in the meter. When I expect it to be high, it's low and vice versa.

For example, I took your advice to test two hours after eating... now remember, before, I did it shortly afterwards and it was 10.8, well I waited til 2 hours after lunch and on THAT occasion it was 11.9 - higher than it was just after a meal.

Also, as I said in the other thread, this morning I haven't eaten anything to speak of, but the test result was even HIGHER, at 13.1. What's going on??

Tricia

 

[Grazer]

You need to go back to the doctor Tricia. If your readings are correct, you are full blown diabetic and need advice with possibly medication.

 

[daisy1]

Hi Tricia and welcome to the forum

To help prevent the progression from pre-diabetes, or to help you if you are diagnosed with full diabetes, here is the information we give to new members and I hope it will be helpful to you. Ask all the questions you like and someone will answer.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 30,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
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Please sign our e-petition for free testing for all type 2's; here's the link:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/petition/

Do get your friends and colleagues to sign as well.

 

[Ali H]

The reason your readings are higher two hours afterwards than just minutes after, are because your body has had more time to turn what you ate into sugar, ie break it down. Just a few minutes after eating the body has only just started processing things.

I agree with the others that it looks like you may need some meds as you don't want to sit in the teens all the time.

Ali

 

[Pink&Perky]

Thanks - I've made an appointment to go back to the diabetic clinic on Friday morning, rather than waiting the full three months to see if I can turn this around as I have done before. It's a shock, and I'm dreading the tablets, and there are also many questions left to ask... nothing appears certain...

I bought my meter in 2010 when I was supposedly in "excellent control" with just diet and exercise, and that meter always seemed to give high readings, even THEN, but it didn't matter at the time, and I gave up using it anyway as there wasn't much point self-testing when my clinic results were always good. Last year I even managed to get the clinic results LOWER, so I was rejoicing!

Now, despite a new regime of low-carb eating and being much more sensible all round, it's gone into reverse. Just after Christmas (albeit having had the flu) I was told the Hb was up to 8, it was done again six months later and - to my dismay - had gone up to 10. That didn't seem to make any sense. (Maybe the new diet released a lot of excess glucose into my blood that wasn't being disposed of?)

So I started using the meter again, (BUT, you see, I'd never resolved the previous question, that the meter seemed to give higher results than I expected, right from the outset.)

And my meter readings NOW are only slightly higher than in 2010 --- and are working "back to front", so that they are high in the morning, and drop after eating. DUH.

But having said all that, at the end of the day, it does look like I'm now into full-blown diabetes - just like my Mother and Brother before me. It's tough to accept, but I'll have to I guess.

One other thing - for the past week I've felt terrible. It would be easy to attribute it to high glucose but I know what that feels like and this is different - my glands are swollen, I feel very tired and headachey, weak, no energy, a bit like beginning a cold but it never arrives. Anybody want to comment as to whether this is the high blood readings, or not?