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Ratios when very low carbing

Picci

Picci

Well-Known Member
Messages
300
Location
Northumberland
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Morning all, I was just curious to know what kind of insulin ratios you use? Pre low carb I was 3:1 for b.fast, and 1:1 lunch and evening meal. So apart from breakfast when I'm more resistant 1 unit of novo rapid cancelled out 10 carbohydrates. This was a super tool to use.

Since very low carbing I am using very small numbers of carbs, breakfast is 1g of carb and 14 protein, in the form of unsweetened soya milk. However I STILL need to take take 3 units of novo rapid for that tiny amount!!

Lunch may be 3g of carbs, in the form of salad items and a few nuts/chicken etc, and I have to have at least 2 units, which in the past 2 units would have been for 20 carbs.

The problem is I now need to work out my ratios more precisely, as what worked for years, the 1 unit per 10g now needs finely tuning.

I probably haven't made much sense!! Sorry!!


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I was a 1:10 and couldn't get Bs in normal range. Worked with a nutrionist who helped me sort it out. 3 weeks Of intense recording but worth the effort as I am now 1:7 and that's working well.


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Hi,
I too need to take insulin when I have very small amounts of carbs. I put it down to something called the Chinese Restaurant Effect. When you eat and your food enters your small intestine it stretches it. This triggers glucogen production and a raise in BG so that your body can immediately benefit from the food you are eating instead of however long it takes to digest it. There's an explanation for it here (half-way down the page):

http://www.diabetes-book.com/cms/articl ... acn-fccws-

What I do now is eat to my portion size or how full I am. It's not as exact as carb counting, but I've not fallen foul of it yet. For me this means 4u of Novorapid for breakfast, 5 for lunch and 6 for dinner. Even though I have very small amounts of carbs (less than, or about, 10g) per meal.
 
Thank you both for your reply. Dr Bernstein talks about the Chinese restaurant effect!! Sam, I know you've read his book too.

I am just very surprised at needing such a 'large' amount of insulin ( I'm talking small numbers here mind you ) for so few carbs!! Bernstein says 1 unit per 8 carbs is a god starting point, I seem to need double that. I suppose there is less insulin circulating in my body so I may need that extra amount just to keep myself topped up.


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I know it doesn't make sense at first does it? It's the rule I live by now though, inject by how full I am. Carb counting doesn't work for me when low carbing. I wish there was more info out there on the Chinese Restaurant Effect, i.e. estimating insulin dose.
 
Hey guys!

I eat about 50g carb a day and the normal carb ratio doesn't really apply. I use my 1 unit Apidra : 8g carb as a starting point for calculating the dose, then I add half to one unit for the protein (depending on the portion size) and then I add another half unit just because I'm eating. As mad as it sounds, I need to add a half to one unit whenever I eat regardless of what I'm eating - I think that probably equates to the Bernstein 'Chinese restaurant effect' that Sam was talking about. I just know that I need an extra half unit for a chicken breast and an extra unit for two pork steaks when my carbs for the meal are very low. It's a bit of a black art packaged as a science really in my opinion :lol: Having said that, Bernstein does actually give a starting point for how much you should jab for protein, but it's in units of regular insulin (not rapid-acting) per ounce of protein - and I'm afraid I've been too lazy to work it out!

Smidge
 
My life has become very complicated since low carbing!!! I think I can safely say 1 unit novo rapid per 1g ( 1 tiny gram) of carb ( providing it includes protein. So much to calculate unfortunately. I wish I could do like Sam does!! But I'm not sure I could rely on it for good control. I too have one unit extra, just 'for eating'. !! Today I woke 5.9mmol. Had my usual unsweetened soya, 1 carb, 14 protein. Had my usual 3 units of novo rapid due to morning resistance, but one extra unit because I was 'eating'. Now I know this works, as I always have the same breakfast and always have 3 units of rapid per 1 carb for breakfast!! It's now the rest of the day I have to figure out. Bernstein insists on always eating the same amount of carbs and protein I suppose it makes life easier once you figure it out. Thanks for the info, hope more comes!


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It is a bit of a guessing game and it isn't exact like carb counting is, which I am a bit uncomfortable with because I don't like guessing insulin doses. If it is the Chinese Restaurant Effect then maybe the same weight of food stretches the small intestine by the same amount? I might have an experiment with this - or I might have a good Google!
 
Well, it's definitely not the weight! I had 50g of LC porridge yesterday and 200g of flaxseed muffins today. Gave 4 units for each and my pre- and post-meal readings were consistent for both days.
 
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