Reverse DP

Early morning there is a rise in blood glucose known as a liver dump or dawn phenomenon. See http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/dawn-phenomenon.html

Hi @Harebrain

It doesn't matter whether you test immediately on waking or a few minutes later, so long as you are consistent so that when you compare results over time you are comparing like with like.

Many people - myself included - experience a rise between waking and the pre-breakfast / next test, but not everyone does. Perhaps your liver dump happens before you wake up.

Harebrain said:

My waking time has not been consistant recently, is that likely to make a difference. For example today I was up at 6, yesterday after 7.

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It may well make a difference - and you will be able to track this over time and be able to interpret the results accordingly, but I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Readings taken immediately before and 2 hours after eating are more helpful for diabetes management as you can understand the impact of particular foods on your blood sugar levels.

Goonergal said:

Hi @Harebrain


Many people - myself included - experience a rise between waking and the pre-breakfast / next test, but not everyone does. Perhaps your liver dump happens before you wake up.

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I have been type 2 for about 4 years and being treated now with 1000mg Metformin slow release.
I have recently started a low carb diet and having fantastic results, my question relates to morning fasting levels.

If I test right as I wake up my levels will be for example 6.7 and 45 minutes later it was 8.5 just prior to me having breakfast.
1 hour after breakfast I was down to 7.3 and two hours I was again at 6.7

As a part of the Low Carb /Keto diet they talk about fasting for part of the day but if my morning levels spike until I eat how can I do this, I have no problem not eating until lunch time as I don't really get hungry.

Are there strategies to lowering morning levels without food?

rick75 said:

I have been type 2 for about 4 years and being treated now with 1000mg Metformin slow release.
I have recently started a low carb diet and having fantastic results, my question relates to morning fasting levels.

If I test right as I wake up my levels will be for example 6.7 and 45 minutes later it was 8.5 just prior to me having breakfast.
1 hour after breakfast I was down to 7.3 and two hours I was again at 6.7

As a part of the Low Carb /Keto diet they talk about fasting for part of the day but if my morning levels spike until I eat how can I do this, I have no problem not eating until lunch time as I don't really get hungry.

Are there strategies to lowering morning levels without food?

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I hear liver block is a useful approach. I know the lovely @ickihun knows a bit about this..and I gather that for some a bit of cheese or nuts before bed can help. I also wondered if maybe your were on any other meds ?

rick75 said:

I have been type 2 for about 4 years and being treated now with 1000mg Metformin slow release.
I have recently started a low carb diet and having fantastic results, my question relates to morning fasting levels.

If I test right as I wake up my levels will be for example 6.7 and 45 minutes later it was 8.5 just prior to me having breakfast.
1 hour after breakfast I was down to 7.3 and two hours I was again at 6.7

As a part of the Low Carb /Keto diet they talk about fasting for part of the day but if my morning levels spike until I eat how can I do this, I have no problem not eating until lunch time as I don't really get hungry.

Are there strategies to lowering morning levels without food?

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Hi @rick75

I'm not an expert as relatively recently diagnosed myself, but as I understand it the morning fasting/pre-breakfast levels are often the last to come down.

My own experience is similar to yours. I am no longer eating breakfast, but when I was, I would see a big rise between my morning fasting level and my pre-breakfast reading, followed by a drop after eating. I tried many strategies suggested on here to stop the rise, but to no avail.

In the end I just decided to accept it for what it was and be patient. A few months ago I decided to try skipping breakfast as I wanted to experiment with intermittent fasting. I continued testing at the times I would have been eating and the pattern was the same. However, as I've continued with this - and added in some 24 hour "dinner to dinner" fasts, I have found that both my fasting level and the "pre-breakfast" rise have gradually dropped (although I do still get a rise between first and second reading). Whether this is due to the fasting or just time, or a combination of the two, I have no idea, but it is working for me.

We're all different so may not be the same for you, but if you're not hungry in the morning then it would be worth experimenting with skipping breakfast- give it a decent go to allow for the odd anomaly- to see how it affects you.

rick75 said:

Are there strategies to lowering morning levels without food?

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Some people find that coffee with double cream will stop morning rises. I don't eat breakfast either, but have a mug of coffee with sweetener and double cream.

I don't bother with testing first thing - as I can't do anything much to change that reading it seemed unhelpful and just used up more strips.
I did find that as time went on I was experiencing drops in energy when I ate lunch and dinner. Mid afternoon I just wanted to go to sleep - something I experienced in my teens and twenties.
After thinking about it, I decided to try various strategies, and discovered that eating earlier in the day is what I needed to do, and to have a small amount of carbs at that time. No carbs did not work.
From my hospital checks I know that my fasting blood sugars have dropped significantly, and my Hba1c is way down, so it seems it is the way to go for me, rather than not eating for longer.

Harebrain said:

In the past I have taken my first BG reading 30-45 mins after getting up.However reading a post on the forum suggested that the fasting BG should be taken immediately. So recently I have done that, and also done my normal later testing.

Far from experiencing a rise in BG, the later readings are always lower.

Am I missing the DP or something else?

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What medication are you on for your diabetes @Harebrain ? Those on a low carb diet only have their system set up to spike heavier on carbs. Their body reacts badly to carbs until they reintroduce their starchy carb back into their diet very very gradually. (Like peanuts allergy remedies). For some.
I see your levels are lowerer after rising.
Meds can do that or a fatty protein before bed.
Well done in having no huge dump on rising. Do you see it anytime in your day?

Harebrain said:

My waking time has not been consistant recently, is that likely to make a difference. For example today I was up at 6, yesterday after 7.

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I once did alot of shift work and night shifts. I tested on rising regardless of the world clock. The fasting bg is after your fast/sleep period, whatever your personal situation.
Diabetes doesn't like shift work thou.

Liver dumps can increase your hba1c level. On testing myself I found blocking no detriment to my liver enzyme output as a second bonus. For me I know blocking to be safe for my liver, in fact in that testing period on low carbs I reduced my enzymes from 220 to 20.