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Saturated fat

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Struma said:
@Freema My family was recruited as participants onto the EPIC Trial from its inception in early 90's.
We were given to understand its purpose was the relationship of nutrition to cancer. My goodness there was a lot of paperwork/questions to be filled in each time, around 50 x A4!!
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The 'C;' in EPIC stands for Cancer, and the original trial published in 2001 was purely into the effect of nutrition on the disease. Other researchers have since gained access to the database, and have investigated other trends and connections. Ther is an EPIC - Norfolk, and an EPIC Oxford. This latter study is apparently the one that is looking at vegetarians, but it is still at the recruiting stage (vegetarians only need apply) so has not started collecting data, so is not the one Michael Greger uses for his figures. Again, it is being run by CRUK so is cancer orientated.

I dont think the original EPIC data identified vegetarians or diabetics as such, but did record meat and fat consumption and BMI,

PS the Mormons are giving us another visit today so I will ask them more about their health database and see of they give comparisons between veggies and non veggie diabetics.
 
Struma & Avocado Sevenfold interesting
yes the EPIC is as far as I know still going on for some in kinds of follow up studies, but it is good to know they do it with as much background knowledge as possible...
yes guess it was mainly to find out about what importance different kinds of nutritions and foodstyles had to your risk of canser, but as the material is huge and in that way open to other kinds of interpretations, so
it has been looked upon to see other aspects as well.
But one finding was according to cancer that vegans did get a higher rate of brain tumors than did people eating meat and especially fish in a more average foods style, and from that was lead that vegans needed to get more vitamin B12, and the important EPA and DHA usually contained in fish oils, but now available in (sea)algea-capsuels


Avocado Sevenfold... well 5 points lowering is a lot I think... from what number to what number may I ask if that is not to private for you ?
 
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Freema said:
Struma & Avocado Sevenfold interesting
yes the EPIC is as far as I know stil going on for some, but it is good to know they do it with as much backgriund knowledge as possible...
Avocado Sevenfold... well 5 points lowering is a lot I think... from what number to what number may I ask if that is not to private for you ?
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13 January 2016 - hba1c 40 (5.8%) - was lacto-ovo vegetarian
Gave up eggs and dairy at the end of February
02 June 2016 - hba1c 35 (5.4%)
04 August 2016 - hba1c 35 (5.4%)

The two summer tests were for pre-operation assessments. Next regular hba1c test will be in January. I didn't change anything else in my life so I suspect dairy. I feel I have less inflammation in my fingers for example since I gave it up. I think any kind of stress on the body, such as inflammation, could raise bg. It is just my observation, not based on science.
 
Avocado Sevenfold said:
13 January 2016 - hba1c 40 (5.8%) - was lacto-ovo vegetarian
Gave up eggs and dairy at the end of February
02 June 2016 - hba1c 35 (5.4%)
04 August 2016 - hba1c 35 (5.4%)

The two summer tests were for pre-operation assessments. Next regular hba1c test will be in January. I didn't change anything else in my life so I suspect dairy. I feel I have less inflammation in my fingers for example since I gave it up. I think any kind of stress on the body, such as inflammation, could raise bg. It is just my observation, not based on science.
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well I am very interested in seeing what your next HbA1c will be... you say no animal fat

I eat meat but not much but try to avoid animal fats most of the time , only once in a while eating sour creme or cream and the fat contained in cheese...
 
Freema said:
well I am very interested in seeing what your next HbA1c will be... you say no animal fat

I eat meat but not much but try to avoid animal fats most of the time , only once in a while eating sour creme or cream and the fat contained in cheese...
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Yes, no animal fat at all now. There are plenty of other things to eat so it's all good. Will post an update in January.
 
Each to their own I have no problem with animal or non animal fats.my HbA1c came down to 38 from 64 while eating both.
 
Freema said:
and besides the very used argument that humans always have eaten a lot of saturated fats even before being farmers ,I think that that agument is very hollow, I do believe that most animals that humans did hunt the last many hundreds of thousands of years were not animals with a lot of fat on them... maybe eccept the fatty fish caught in autumn, just before the salmons were breading...
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Sorry to disappoint you Freema but ACCURATE written History (the Bible) records that the first humans (Adam & Eve) were farmers. So called "science" about humans being "hunter gatherers" has NO FOUNDATION in fact. They ave NO FACTS to back up their THEORY - and that is not TRUE "science" - only THEORY.
 
lindisfel said:
No Freema, I think a lot of vegans eat less calories as opposed to the gross carb eaters, hence they have less visceral fat and less diabetes. Vegans who eat a lot of carbs get fat. It is refined carbs that kill us and we do not have control over their intake because we foul up our satiety hormone by stuffing ourselves with cakes and bread, etc etc.
Anyway, I like meat! :) Derek
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Something else to keep in mind Lindisfel, Vegans tend to be very particular about WHAT they eat - i.e. NO PROCESSED FOOD - When I first came to live in Uganda from the UK I was only one of two Diabetics in Masaka (the other was an Indian Doctor). Local people were "poor" and only tended to eat food they grew themselves - BUT With the modern opening of Supermarkets selling PROCESSED FOODS Diabetes has SOARED and there is now a "Diabetic Clinic" in the local hospital. We POISON ourselves with JUNK FOODS.
 
Yup and I'm afraid I did just that tonight Chicken Korma still haven't stopped coughing and sneezing nose running like some one turned on a tap happens every time I eat processed muck.
 
Kyambala said:
Sorry to disappoint you Freema but ACCURATE written History (the Bible) records that the first humans (Adam & Eve) were farmers. So called "science" about humans being "hunter gatherers" has NO FOUNDATION in fact. They ave NO FACTS to back up their THEORY - and that is not TRUE "science" - only THEORY.
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ape and eve are not doing very well are they ? how come that stupid god invented diabetes in the first place ?
 
Kyambala said:
Sorry to disappoint you Freema but ACCURATE written History (the Bible) records that the first humans (Adam & Eve) were farmers. So called "science" about humans being "hunter gatherers" has NO FOUNDATION in fact. They ave NO FACTS to back up their THEORY - and that is not TRUE "science" - only THEORY.
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Genesis 9:3
 
This thread has gone to the Dogs (where Dogs are in fact backwards Gods) Sorry, but the only Genesis I recognise had Phil Collins as the drummer.
 
Oldvatr said:
This thread has gone to the Dogs (where Dogs are in fact backwards Gods) Sorry, but the only Genesis I recognise had Phil Collins as the drummer.
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while I have my own views on religion, I respect the right of those who hold religious beliefs to express them, and think their point of view should be treated with respect.
 
serenity648 said:
while I have my own views on religion, I respect the right of those who hold religious beliefs to express them, and think their point of view should be treated with respect.
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Personally I prefer the Oahspe Bible, but having just endured 2 hours of indoctrination by a high power team of Mormon Elders trying to get me and my wife to become baptised this coming Sunday, I think The book of Mormon sounds interesting (not). I respect your respect of others religion, but I would prefer that we keep this site secular amd only worship science as taught in universities around the world, even though that can also be difficult to believe sometimes.

I request that you also respect my right to disagree with dogma, which I find equally offensive.
 
Kyambala said:
Sorry to disappoint you Freema but ACCURATE written History (the Bible) records that the first humans (Adam & Eve) were farmers. So called "science" about humans being "hunter gatherers" has NO FOUNDATION in fact. They ave NO FACTS to back up their THEORY - and that is not TRUE "science" - only THEORY.
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?????????????

Capital letters do not an argument make........
 
serenity648 said:
while I have my own views on religion, I respect the right of those who hold religious beliefs to express them, and think their point of view should be treated with respect.
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As a scientist, I cannot respect arguments/ideas that are based on non-scientific religious beliefs, especially if those religious beliefs are falsely claimed to be scientific fact.
 
Religious beliefs = instruments of control.......obviously easier to not have to think for yourself.......
 
Do you think this the proper place to get into a religious debate. I for one don't.
 
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