Saturated fats;no longer deadly- BMJ

Not forgetting your assistance towards this too, and Dr Asherm Malhorta.

I have to ask though.. How does this BMJ and other articles get fed through to NHS Staff that are still adamant that ALL fat is bad?

Thank you so much for your and Trudi's contributions and all the NHS staff that are not beligerently sticking to the NHS nonsense of the eatwell plate.

How do we get these articles in front of our GP eyes? Even I have tried I get blocked from saying anything at all and I am just a patient but Chair of a PPG.

Yes, thanks to you too @Southport GP ! You are part of the solution.

Yes thank you so much for the hard work you have done for us. It is much appreciated.

Just watching recording of the BBC food programme last night... How on earth will the media learn that marg and spread are not better than butter! They mentioned transfats but still demonised saturated fats.

How do we get over that to eat fats though that people need to look at the qty of carbs they are eating? Otherwise we will end up with a population even fatter and with more health issues.

Southport GP said:

One of the biggest barriers to professional acceptance of the LCHF diet has been the HF- high fat bit. And yet without it the diet is a terrible struggle!
Partly through steady pressure by people like Zoe Harcome and Trudy Deakin the 'all fats are bad and saturated fats are very very bad' dogma is wearing thin. There has been a breakthrough article - a hugely important analysis of dietary fats in the BMJ -see the press release here;
http://www.bmj.com/company/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/trans-fat.pdf

Its trans fats that are bad, very bad -like margarine- the fats in full fat milk, yoghurt, butter and your steak are fine.
The more health-care professionals that become aware of this the better as saturated fat phobia is the bedrock of professional resistance to the low carb diet.

Click to expand...

After diagnosis. I cut out all fizzy/junk food, I cut out the ''Bad Carbs'' reduced my calorie intake a lot including Good''Carbs'' intake, I swapped crisps and chocolate for Peanuts, I reduced smoking. My Blood glucose remained the same(what this is I don't know as I wasn't told)
But what alarmed the Nurse the most was my Cholesterol level which shot up so I chose to pack in the Nuts. Yet Since coming here yesterday I find that I should ignore this. Is this wise? I get reducing the ''Good Carb'' yet am struggling to get round how increasing say Cheese and Butter instead.
I have swapped Real Butter for ''Flora Pro active lowers Cholesterol'' It appears to be lower in calories and I would hope help me deal with the Cholesterol issue. But its a Margarine am I better sticking to Butter than this Marg?
As I have so long to wait for another Blood Glucose test I'm still wondering if choosing this is doing more harm than good?
Although by reducing Carbs I am going to need a lot less spreads as I'll have nothing to put them on.

If I kicked out the Carbs replaced them with fat am I leading myself into trouble from another issue such as Heart disease or a Stroke?

I won't be able to assure you or use science but in my experience, my cholesterol reverted to good because I stopped using trans and polyunsaturated fats.
I now only use natural animal fats to cook with.
Doing a very low carb lifestyle with full fat is great at reducing cholesterol eventually.
Your blood glucose levels and hba1c have to return to near normal levels and in control to do this! But it will.
It is not a diet, it is a lifestyle!

Ditch the spreads for butter.

Your other worry about your heart, is the same, by my experience, my BP and other vital signs were going the wrong way with the the type of diet recommended by the health service, now because of my lifestyle, my dsn called my BP perfect!
As with all my vital signs, I'm healthy and fitter than decades ago!

Low carb works!

What's the kicker at the end mean?
(In the link to the full article)

'There was no association between saturated fats and health outcomes in studies where saturated fat generally replaced refined carbohydrates, but there was a positive association between total trans fatty acids and health outcomes.'

I don't eat marg, and I like a bit of butter, but is that saying while marg is worse than refined carbs, butter and satyrated fats are on par with refined carbs, as I don't touch refined carbs either.

Surely butter should be better than any carbs?
Even the so called 'healthy' ones?

SunnyExpat said:

What's the kicker at the end mean?
(In the link to the full article)

'There was no association between saturated fats and health outcomes in studies where saturated fat generally replaced refined carbohydrates, but there was a positive association between total trans fatty acids and health outcomes.'

I don't eat marg, and I like a bit of butter, but is that saying while marg is worse than refined carbs, butter and satyrated fats are on par with refined carbs, as I don't touch refined carbs either.

Surely butter should be better than any carbs?
Even the so called 'healthy' ones?

Click to expand...

But me cutting down on Carbs mean I am naturally going to cut down on Butter and Spreads as there will not be much use for them any more,
But it's the Cholesterol reducing Marg that's got me bugged now if I use this instead of Butter in Cooking am I doing the right thing?

I suggest you read www.dietdoctor.com/lchf as a starting point, the website of Dr Andreas Eenfeldt.

SunnyExpat said:

What's the kicker at the end mean?
(In the link to the full article)

'There was no association between saturated fats and health outcomes in studies where saturated fat generally replaced refined carbohydrates, but there was a positive association between total trans fatty acids and health outcomes.'

I don't eat marg, and I like a bit of butter, but is that saying while marg is worse than refined carbs, butter and satyrated fats are on par with refined carbs, as I don't touch refined carbs either.

Surely butter should be better than any carbs?
Even the so called 'healthy' ones?

Click to expand...

Absolutely I don't think that the BMJ is really representing the original paper faithfully in this press release The gist of the original paper found (using observational studies; not randomised controlled trials ie not the highest quality of evidence)

There was no association between saturated fats and health outcomes in studies where saturated fat generally replaced refined carbohydrates, but there was a positive association between total trans fatty acids and health outcomes
(I would have thought that was already accepted, hence the regulations on trans fats in some countries and the fact that it has largely been replaced in manufactured products although will still be present in for example reused cooking oil used to fry chips)
Dietary guidelines for saturated and trans fatty acids must carefully consider the effect of replacement nutrients4
(yes again this is very evident in recent discussions going back to the consensus paper in 2010 http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/93/4/684.full)

Recent publicity has once more suggested that a Mediterranean type dietary pattern yields good results but neither of the major trials of this pattern (PREDIMED and the Lyon heart study) had high levels of saturated fat (nor yet the 'traditional' Cretan diet of the seven countries study)

Here's another recent discussion on the subject http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.c...disease-risk-are-still-valid/20068191.article

There is a big distance between saying don't replace saturated fats with trans fats or refined carbohydrates and saying that saturated fats are good for you. Where is the evidence for that?

What food has got trans fats in now, just been checking the cupboards, and fortunately I can't find any on anything.
(Must admit, I thought they had been bad, and banned for years now)

banned in the US but not europe yet although the food industry has supposedly removed them voluntarily.

Montyshrew said:

After diagnosis. I cut out all fizzy/junk food, I cut out the ''Bad Carbs'' reduced my calorie intake a lot including Good''Carbs'' intake, I swapped crisps and chocolate for Peanuts, I reduced smoking. My Blood glucose remained the same(what this is I don't know as I wasn't told)
But what alarmed the Nurse the most was my Cholesterol level which shot up so I chose to pack in the Nuts. Yet Since coming here yesterday I find that I should ignore this. Is this wise? I get reducing the ''Good Carb'' yet am struggling to get round how increasing say Cheese and Butter instead.
I have swapped Real Butter for ''Flora Pro active lowers Cholesterol'' It appears to be lower in calories and I would hope help me deal with the Cholesterol issue. But its a Margarine am I better sticking to Butter than this Marg?
As I have so long to wait for another Blood Glucose test I'm still wondering if choosing this is doing more harm than good?
Although by reducing Carbs I am going to need a lot less spreads as I'll have nothing to put them on.

If I kicked out the Carbs replaced them with fat am I leading myself into trouble from another issue such as Heart disease or a Stroke?

Click to expand...

You need to ask for a break down of you cholesterol test. Ignore the total cholesterol reading. What you are interested in is the 'good' cholesterol level (HDL) , 'bad' cholesterol (LDL or non-HDL) and the ratio of HDL to LDL. You can then see how this compares to the recommended guidelines. At my last cholesterol test (6 months after first and 5 months into LCHF) the advice from doctor via DN was to put me on statins as my total cholesterol had increased from 5.4 to 5.7mm/mol . However when I asked for a breakdown it turns out that my HDL had increased to well above recommended levels (good), non-HDL had decreased to below recommended levels (good) and my ratio was 3 - recommended level is below 4. So although my total cholesterol had gone up on LCHF diet which might initially look bad, asking for a breakdown revealed that LCHF was having a positive affect on my cholesterol. Don't fear the fat - lots of alternatives that you can spread butter on! I would contact your diabetic nurse and ask for your readings for your blood sugar levels (was this your HbA1c?) and you cholesterol so you can monitor what is going on.

Andrew Colvin said:

banned in the US but not europe yet although the food industry has supposedly removed them voluntarily.

Click to expand...

Makes sense then, I've seen trans fats vilified for years, so I am guessing it's out of most things now.

Just read the entire report,

'Replacement of saturated fats by unsaturated fats'

' replacement of saturated fat by polyunsaturated fat (with a corresponding increase in polyunsaturated:saturated (P:S) ratio conferred the greatest reduction in risk '

is where the money is at for me, so I think I'll be on the fish more often, which is quite a good result, considering I like it anyway!

(Seems a bit odd that wasn't the headline, unless I've mis-read the results somewhere along the line?)

Mongolia said:

You need to ask for a break down of you cholesterol test. Ignore the total cholesterol reading. What you are interested in is the 'good' cholesterol level (HDL) , 'bad' cholesterol (LDL or non-HDL) and the ratio of HDL to LDL. You can then see how this compares to the recommended guidelines. At my last cholesterol test (6 months after first and 5 months into LCHF) the advice from doctor via DN was to put me on statins as my total cholesterol had increased from 5.4 to 5.7mm/mol . However when I asked for a breakdown it turns out that my HDL had increased to well above recommended levels (good), non-HDL had decreased to below recommended levels (good) and my ratio was 3 - recommended level is below 4. So although my total cholesterol had gone up on LCHF diet which might initially look bad, asking for a breakdown revealed that LCHF was having a positive affect on my cholesterol. Don't fear the fat - lots of alternatives that you can spread butter on! I would contact your diabetic nurse and ask for your readings for your blood sugar levels (was this your HbA1c?) and you cholesterol so you can monitor what is going on.

Click to expand...

A few thing's
Whats good Cholesterol?
Whats HDL, LDL?
And what's Hba1c?
And whats LCHF?

My first Blood test was for the Diabetes, I believe they took my Cholesterol, Liver and Kidneys test too, it was four bottles. I was prescribed 1 X Metoformin. I was not given any warning over Cholesterol at this point.
My second test was for Blood Glucose, Cholesterol and, Liver & Kidneys.
My results for the Glucose, Cholesterol and Liver & Kidneys resulted in me having to double my Metformin and a warning over Cholesterol which had risen(enough for the Nurse to appear more concerned about that than the Glucose level). After this appointment my Nurse spoke to my GP about Forxiga they later prescribed this, to take along with x 2 Metformin.
2 weeks ago today I gad my third blood test which was for only Liver & Kidney function why they didn't take for Glucose & Cholesterol I don't know other than being told ''you'll have one in a couple of months''.
I Don't know the results they usually take a week and is no news good news?

Iv'e had an eye test showing the following:-
Right Eye: R1 Background, Retinopathy M1- Maculopathy
Left Eye: R1 Background, Retinopathy M0- No Maculopathy.
Int he middle I have a DR DM
Can anyone shed any further light on this other than I have Diabetic changes in the back of my eye?

It takes time for results to be reviewed by GPs. You are entitled to go in and ask the receptionist for a printout of your results.

Do check them, even if they say normal... My hubbys said normal but when I used Dr Google I told him that his cholesterol result looked like he needed to reduce the stains he was put on. Sure enough he questioned and the GP unhesitingly reduced the statins.

Do not take it that no news is good news. Take the opportunity to ask the receptionist for a printout of all your recent results and examine them closely. Then see your GP armed with knowledge.

It is a requirement by Apr 2016 that all patients that are registered as online will be able to view their test results and consultations (**) with GPs (** denotes that some remarks from consultations will not necessarily be visible to the patient).

If you are registered online (you can still do everything by phone even if you are an online patient) you will be able to review your test results and allergies, injections, medications and consultations.

donnellysdogs said:

It takes time for results to be reviewed by GPs. You are entitled to go in and ask the receptionist for a printout of your results.

Do check them, even if they say normal... My hubbys said normal but when I used Dr Google I told him that his cholesterol result looked like he needed to reduce the stains he was put on. Sure enough he questioned and the GP unhesitingly reduced the statins.

Do not take it that no news is good news. Take the opportunity to ask the receptionist for a printout of all your recent results and examine them closely. Then see your GP armed with knowledge.

It is a requirement by Apr 2016 that all patients that are registered as online will be able to view their test results and consultations (**) with GPs (** denotes that some remarks from consultations will not necessarily be visible to the patient).

If you are registered online (you can still do everything by phone even if you are an online patient) you will be able to review your test results and allergies, injections, medications and consultations.

Click to expand...

But what are the chances of a GP agreeing with you as its what you want to hear I know they shouldn't. But can ''google be trusted more than them?
We even hear about them prescribing antibiotics for Viruses when they are totally useless just because the patient asked for them! I have even told a Doctor about something I ''googled'' and he's replied with perhaps your correct! It doesn't fill me with confidence.
This same GP told me I may have a twisted bowel, so was told to go to A&E at which point the Surgeons were adamant it was my appendix causing the pain. I was sent for an X-ray and they saw nothing. They operated found nothing wrong with the Appendix and found my Twisted Bowel!!. I still have issues here hence my need for Fibre and pro-biotics drinks. But then the sources of these are now ruled out due to following a low-carbs/Sugar diet.
My Diabetic Nurse knew far more about Forxiga than my new GP.

Due to the confusion on the dietary advice are there any Medical trials going on? I'm willing to take part I've seen a few but their all American or years out of date.

You can eat lots of leafy green veg, isn't that enough fibre for you?