Spaghetti spikes Blood Glucose after 3-7hours

[Scardoc]

And on the other stuff..... what we tend to forget is that the human body is probably the most complex balancing act on the face of the planet! It's an evolutionary master class in engineering. Unfortunately we have a spanner in the works that throws that balance off. You can try to replicate it but it's impossible.

Whatever way you find to get as close as possible then it's all good.

 

[Dillinger]

Or not as the case may be, at my last cholesterol check my Trigs was 0.5 and the time before that it was 0.7 which is below the recommended target level of 1.7mmol/l for diabetics, how does mine compare to yours Dillinger?

To say blood glucose management is harder is not entirely true, we have many type 1's on this forum who are well controlled but don't follow a LCHF diet,

I really thought you'd be interested in what Scheiner has to say about fat in the diet and the results of the Joslin Study, I remember you were saying only a year or two back that your insulin requirement were quite high considering you were following a LCHF diet of below 30g a day ( was it 1 unit of insulin to every 1g of carbs) and you thought you'd become resistant to the insulin you injected, you did say that your Endo thought it might be related to your diet but you didn't elaborate further on the subject.... which is unfortunate as I suspect he may have been thinking along the same lines a Scheiner.

My Trigs are about 0.7 - I don't have the forms to hand but they have maintained that sort of level for many years (i.e. quite considerably below 1.0). Also, my total cholesterol has dropped recently and I was secretly a bit annoyed about that being a statin refuser and 'cholesterol is a con' believer - it seemed like a mild betrayal of my principles...

I think the point is that the vast majority of Type 1 diabetics fail to get an HbA1c below 6.5% (in old money) as the annual audits show (93% fail to get that level as I recall) so those that do on here are exceptional and not the rule. I'm really trying to address those people who are failing to control their diabetes.

I am interested in this research and I do not dispute it but it doesn't' relate to the giant carby elephant in the room; the effects of fat on insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake must by almost by definition be minimal compared to the effects of eating carbohydrate. What this research says to me is the key thing to avoid is fat & carbs. Carbs on their own are tricky enough so that I avoid them, fat on its own however is fine.

My endo did indeed think that my insulin resistance was related to fat in my diet but I don't think it can be as I hardly eat carbohydrates in any event and the Pizza Effect requires fat and carbs; also as the Joslin stuff referred to on here seems to kick in after a few hours; I'm like that from the get go.

I'm also for the record not saying everyone must low carb; I'm saying I find it so much easier to do that than eating carbs - so why not give it a go? There's nothing to be scared of, especially not the Pizza Effect as it doesn't apply to low carbing. If anyone has good control; then keep doing what you are doing; if you don't then there are alternatives and the most obvious one is dropping the carbs.

Infact the whole thread seems to me to be a good argument on why to low carb rather than how to balance the vagaries of blood sugar control when eating carbs and fat.

Dillinger

 

[phoenix]

Dillinger,
Look up Hyperlipid's ( a card carrying low carber) blog about what he calls physiological insulin resistance.
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.fr/2 ... tance.html
He quotes an experiment where 1 fatty meal ( 6.7 % carb as opposed to 87% carb) did this.
Hyperlipid considers it a benign phenomenon and has a low HbA1c together with a relatively high fasting glucose He produces sufficient insulin ; we don't. If ones basal is set for the average amount of glucose released from the liver, then any increase in insulin resistance caused by a fatty meal would require a commensurate increase in insulin to stop fasting levels increasing.


The great majority of T1s don't reach targets; there are a multitude of reasons.
One big thing that stands out in the stats is how well people do is very much related to region in the UK and to socio economic status. Age also plays a part(do you remember that sad TV programme where none of the young T1s turned up at the clinic ) This is exactly the same here in France. I read a paper about it only the other day.
Out in the sticks here, I am fortunate to have caring doctors who stay in one place. The area doesn't actually have that many diabetics so they also aren't a scarce resource. The hospital is not short of beds so they are also in the position to take people into hospital for a full weeks education;(diet, insulin theory, practical daily exercise sessions, general diabetes knowledge At times this can extend to a month if the person is very overweight and has control problems.
The consultant continues to be rightly proud of his success over many years . He boasts that his patients (all types)don't end up having to have amputations or be on dialysis . This is despite(!) being advised to eat according to dietary guidelines .. As far as I can see they follow them to, I've actually been told off by other patients for not eating enough carbs at lunch!

 

[noblehead]

My Trigs are about 0.7 - I don't have the forms to hand but they have maintained that sort of level for many years (i.e. quite considerably below 1.0). Also, my total cholesterol has dropped recently and I was secretly a bit annoyed about that being a statin refuser and 'cholesterol is a con' believer - it seemed like a mild betrayal of my principles...

I think the point is that the vast majority of Type 1 diabetics fail to get an HbA1c below 6.5% (in old money) as the annual audits show (93% fail to get that level as I recall) so those that do on here are exceptional and not the rule. I'm really trying to address those people who are failing to control their diabetes.

I am interested in this research and I do not dispute it but it doesn't' relate to the giant carby elephant in the room; the effects of fat on insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake must by almost by definition be minimal compared to the effects of eating carbohydrate. What this research says to me is the key thing to avoid is fat & carbs. Carbs on their own are tricky enough so that I avoid them, fat on its own however is fine.

My endo did indeed think that my insulin resistance was related to fat in my diet but I don't think it can be as I hardly eat carbohydrates in any event and the Pizza Effect requires fat and carbs; also as the Joslin stuff referred to on here seems to kick in after a few hours; I'm like that from the get go.

I'm also for the record not saying everyone must low carb; I'm saying I find it so much easier to do that than eating carbs - so why not give it a go? There's nothing to be scared of, especially not the Pizza Effect as it doesn't apply to low carbing. If anyone has good control; then keep doing what you are doing; if you don't then there are alternatives and the most obvious one is dropping the carbs.

Infact the whole thread seems to me to be a good argument on why to low carb rather than how to balance the vagaries of blood sugar control when eating carbs and fat.

Dillinger

Nothing wrong with trigs of 0.7 and if your cholesterol levels are decreasing all the better :thumbup:

The 93% failing is a cause for concern and no-one could argue with that but the reasons why are numerous and not just related to diet. Type 1 is mainly diagnosed in the young and speaking from someone who was diagnosed at 18 I fully understand the denial that they go through, the C4 documentary that Phoenix mentioned above was a real eye opener to the problems diabetes teams face in getting the young to take their diabetes seriously and attend clinic appointments. Throw in the mix that that diabetes consultant are reluctant to advise their patients to reduce their Hba1c below 7 (due to increased hypo's and the risk of losing their hypo awareness symptoms running tighter bg levels) then you can see all is not what it seems.

Back to the subject in hand, your dismissal of what your Endo says doesn't hide the fact that you do eat some form of carbs a day in the form of vegetables, salads or berries, so how else would you explain your high insulin usage despite eating relatively few carbs, the principle of eating low-carb is supposedly lower doses of insulin and considering your ratio was 1 unit to 1g of carb there's definitely something else going on when you consider most non low-carbers have a ratio of 1-10g of carbs. I know you now take Metformin to help with the resistance but surely LCHF means less meds and not more?

The thread has served a good purpose and they should be more like them, I do think in time once evidence is collated that low-carb may become an option when advice is given out by DUK and the NHS, but to what level of carbs they'll recommend is the minimum is debatable.

 

[mrman]

Okay, to op, as many have said eating a high carb and high fat meal can be problematic. What you have to do by trial and error is to calculate the total carbs with your usual ratios. Heres the trial and error bit is to try a percentage to inject approx 15 mins before food, for me I started at 80% and seemed to work first go (pure luck) this will stop you going too low at the 2 hour mark. Wait an hour and inject the other 20%, hopefully you would stay stable. If your too high at the 2 hour mark try putting in 90%, and 10% an hour later. May take a few goes to tweak precisely and advisable to continue checking levels over a 6 hour period for reference. harder is when eating meals like this out and estimating carbs.

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[Dillinger]

Back to the subject in hand, your dismissal of what your Endo says doesn't hide the fact that you do eat some form of carbs a day in the form of vegetables, salads or berries, so how else would you explain your high insulin usage despite eating relatively few carbs, the principle of eating low-carb is supposedly lower doses of insulin and considering your ratio was 1 unit to 1g of carb there's definitely something else going on when you consider most non low-carbers have a ratio of 1-10g of carbs. I know you now take Metformin to help with the resistance but surely LCHF means less meds and not more?

The thread has served a good purpose and they should be more like them, I do think in time once evidence is collated that low-carb may become an option when advice is given out by DUK and the NHS, but to what level of carbs they'll recommend is the minimum is debatable.

Well hold-on; we have long since veered off topic and whilst I agree that I am a fascinating subject for a post I'm not sure how this helps with the OP and his spaghetti?

That aside there is indeed 'something else going on' and I do have a weird insulin to carb ratio; but it's not most 'low-carbers' who have a 1:10 ratio that is the default ratio for all Type 1's so I'm not sure of the point you are making?

I do take Metformin and there is no shame in that nor in properly matching my insulin to my carbs in accordance with my own unique (and quite odd) ratio - I resent the implication that there is some problem with that?

If I ate more carbohydrates would that ratio change? I don't know; I don't think so, but what would change is my HbA1c which would go up; I know this because I used to be a 'well controlled diabetic' on a 'normal diet' with a higher HbA1c than I have now.

Would I need to take more insulin? I would say I probably would.

Do I want to take any more insulin? No, I do not.

Even though those with very high insulin sensitivity who need very little insulin to match their carb intake would I think benefit from low carbing for the simple reason that there is not an insulin available that works how human insulin does. Human insulin is incredibly fast acting and is removed from the system incredibly quickly; so the pancreas constantly produces it whilst blood sugars elevate and a very smooth level is maintained. The fast acting insulin we use cannot hope to match that and as a consequence every Type 1 diabetic will be having glucose peaks as the injected insulin gets going; after 2 hours that might have worn off but you still will be having peaks that a non-diabetic would never have. That can't be good for you; so that's one of the reasons why I low carb.

But enough about me; let's talk about you - so what do you think of me?

Dillinger

 

[noblehead]

But enough about me; let's talk about you - so what do you think of me?Dillinger

I think along with a lot of other type 1's on the forum you are someone who takes their diabetes seriously and is determined to control it to the best of your ability, why would I think anything else?

Interesting what you say about insulin as I've said as much myself for a long time, the notion that QA insulin's such as Apidra and Novorapid can be taken just before or after eating is far from the truth and injecting 15-30 minutes can make a huge difference to postprandial bg readings (depending on food eaten) as many of us have found out, if I were to ever to ever low-carb again I would seriously consider a pump to deliver my insulin as you get set it to match the slow increase in bg and not have to inject 2-3 times for one meal.

As to taking Metformin, there's nothing wrong with taking meds and if you need them you need them, I take Ramipril have have done for several years and wouldn't want to stop taking as it has other health benefits apart from lowering bp, I've never been a fan of this 'Big Pharma' nonsense so your in good company here Dillinger

I can't comment if your insulin ratio would change if you introduced more carbs in your diet as I'm not in a position to do so, if your insulin to carb ratio was 1 unit to 1g of carbs before going VLC then I can fully understand why you wanted to severely restrict the carbs in your diet, injecting 200-300 units of insulin a day doesn't bear thinking about!!!....although I appreciate some people are in the unfortunate position where they have to.

The only reason I referred to you earlier was because you said that you didn't think that fat effected your bg control, I just remembered you did say a while ago that your Endo disagreed and thought it did and that was the reason why I mentioned it, it's all interesting stuff and all these studies and anything that can help us understand how and what effects our diabetes management can only be seen in a positive light IMHO.

 

[HpprKM]

I use low gi spaghetti

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