Started testing again pending "official" diagnosis

[tigerlily72]

Just for anyone that may not have seen some of my previous posts . . . I had a full blood test over a week ago which came back with fasting blood glucose of 8.1 and HbA1c of 44. I was told by my GP that I AM diabetic (T2) but need a 2nd fasting blood test. She told me she doubted it would return a score of below 6.

Anyway, I've been very strict with myself since Wednesday of this week when I got my results and saw her. I've just used my Codefree that I bought earlier this year as I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic in Dec 2014. I hadn't eaten for just over 3 hours and my result was 6.0.

Pretty pleased with myself Now, I'm wondering if it's possible to "reverse" this and if (just perhaps) I may still be pre-diabetic? . . . .

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Just for anyone that may not have seen some of my previous posts . . . I had a full blood test over a week ago which came back with fasting blood glucose of 8.1 and HbA1c of 44. I was told by my GP that I AM diabetic (T2) but need a 2nd fasting blood test. She told me she doubted it would return a score of below 6.

Anyway, I've been very strict with myself since Wednesday of this week when I got my results and saw her. I've just used my Codefree that I bought earlier this year as I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic in Dec 2014. I hadn't eaten for just over 3 hours and my result was 6.0.

Pretty pleased with myself Now, I'm wondering if it's possible to "reverse" this and if (just perhaps) I may still be pre-diabetic? . . . .

Yes, it is possible to send your prediabetes into remission, and have your blood results in the non diabetic range. People only "progress" through prediabetes into ever-worsening diabetes if they continue to eat according to the "eatwell plate" ie lots of carbs at every meal, and snacks.

 

[tigerlily72]

Yes, it is possible to send your prediabetes into remission, and have your blood results in the non diabetic range. People only "progress" through prediabetes into ever-worsening diabetes if they continue to eat according to the "eatwell plate" ie lots of carbs at every meal, and snacks.

I tested again 90 minutes after eating (after getting the 6.0). I think it was 8.1 or 8.2 and I checked this against the Blood Sugar Checker based on T2, Female and "Eaten in the last 2 hours" and it stated NORMAL.

However, I have not long tested after getting up and got 7.7 I did NOT eat anything or drink anything (other than water) after a late evening meal last night which was at 9pm.

 

[JenniferW]

I spent almost 10 years in the pre-diabetic zone. (They started testing me along with testing everything under the sun to sort out something else.) Then this year I was diagnosed T2. Like you, I'm assuming I can get the levels down again, though despite a big diet change (to low carb) and much more exercise, I've achieved no significant change over the 3 months following the diagnosis! The HbA1c 3 months after the diagnosis was exactly the same! (And it's higher than yours.)

What I'm starting to think - to learn? - is that change isn't going to come instantly.

I've been testing for around a month, so am starting to see patterns. For example, my first test of the day is often the highest of any of them (i.e. dawn phenomena). In other tests in the day, my after meals ones are often lower than the before meals, so I think I'm getting the food 'right'. But what I'm now planning is a week (or maybe two), where as well as writing down all the test results, I carefully list the foods, and the exercise (because my exercise doesn't happen at the same times every day). I hope that that way, I may start to see what might be giving me the lower results, so I can build on that. But this feels a real uphill slog of experimenting on yourself!

 

[graj0]

Like you, I'm assuming I can get the levels down again, though despite a big diet change (to low carb) and much more exercise, I've achieved no significant change over the 3 months following the diagnosis!

It would be fair to expect some favourable results after 3 months. Have you been given a c-peptide test? The metformin will only help out the insulin resistance but if the pancreas isn't producing enough insulin then maybe something like gliclazide is required. Excellent idea to write everything down because it gives GPs less room to suggest that perhaps you haven't been sticking to the diet/exercise regime.

 

[JenniferW]

It would be fair to expect some favourable results after 3 months. Have you been given a c-peptide test? The metformin will only help out the insulin resistance but if the pancreas isn't producing enough insulin then maybe something like gliclazide is required. Excellent idea to write everything down because it gives GPs less room to suggest that perhaps you haven't been sticking to the diet/exercise regime.

I'm not on any medication and the diabetic nurse isn't expecting to see me again for another 9 months! So much for monitoring me?

I'm going to have a week or so where I really record everything carefully, because I'm starting to see that to discuss this with my GP I'm going to need to go in armed with the facts.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I'm not on any medication and the diabetic nurse isn't expecting to see me again for another 9 months! So much for monitoring me?

I'm going to have a week or so where I really record everything carefully, because I'm starting to see that to discuss this with my GP I'm going to need to go in armed with the facts.

I would keep on at the nurse and GP if I were you. It should be possible to get meds with an HbA1c of 47 if you want them.

 

[JenniferW]

I would keep on at the nurse and GP if I were you. It should be possible to get meds with an HbA1c of 47 if you want them.

I'm not sure what to think - yet. I need to know more about everything first. I'm not on any medication for anything else - have never had long-term medication for anything - and I'd be wanting to ask why they're not put me on medication when some people at this level are being.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I'm not sure what to think - yet. I need to know more about everything first. I'm not on any medication for anything else - have never had long-term medication for anything - and I'd be wanting to ask why they're not put me on medication when some people at this level are being.

My guess is that they don't think 47 is anything to worry about. But they're wrong. There is evidence that people can get complications when their HbA1c is in the prediabetic range. Not wanting to scare you at all. Just wanting you to be aware of this.

Here is a good article about the use of metformin in prediabetes:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/metastudy-confirms-metformin.html

 

[graj0]

I'm going to have a week or so where I really record everything carefully, because I'm starting to see that to discuss this with my GP I'm going to need to go in armed with the facts.

Just a thought, you might like to google for some food diary software, I use something called "weight by date", I enter the food and the weight of the food and it comes back with up to 10 nutrients, like fat, cholesterol, carbs, vitamins etc plus the RDA for that food and also a figure which is how much over/under it is. It also allow me to enter exercise and it will deduct my exercise calories from food calories, useful if you're into calories. I purchased it years ago and I get free updates and it's pretty good but nowhere to put my BG.

I had a quick google and there seems to be several free PC programs and Android apps if you prefer phone/tablets.

I think it shows that you are serious about your health, diet, exercise and I think just a diary helps you monitor your food intake, without recording it, it's too easy to "miss" little things.

 

[JenniferW]

Just a thought, ... food diary software, ... but nowhere to put my BG. ...

I think your comment is why I was deciding I'd go back to basics and design and print off a day's record sheet for myself. I've done that at different times in the past and it's worked for calorie counting, for example. I usually have exactly the same for breakfast and almost the same for every lunch, and the activities are within a limited range, etc., so there's a personal matrix there and I have my blood test results on a spreadsheet already.

It'll do me good to actually work this out for myself, too. It'll focus my attention on what I'm trying to do with all this diet and exercise change.

 

[tigerlily72]

I'm not on any medication and the diabetic nurse isn't expecting to see me again for another 9 months! So much for monitoring me?

I'm going to have a week or so where I really record everything carefully, because I'm starting to see that to discuss this with my GP I'm going to need to go in armed with the facts.

9 months?! Is this normal? I thought newly diagnosed diabetics were regularly monitored when first diagnosed. If I were you, I'd contact to make an appointment. And, yes going armed with facts of what you've been eating is a great idea. I'm still trying to understand all of this but maybe you do need some form of medication (but hopefully not if you're trying to manage it by diet) x

 

[JenniferW]

9 months?! Is this normal? I thought newly diagnosed diabetics were regularly monitored when first diagnosed. ...

I've been being tested because of pre-diabetic resulta for almost a decade, so I've had plenty of years to get used to how much the NHS isn't exactly proactive about this!

In May I had the T2 diagnosis and had a couple of sessions back with the nurse almost straightaway as I had more questions to ask. I then had a 3-month's later HbA1c test - with exactly the same results. The nurse said that she'd re-test me in 9 months' time, and that as far as she was concerned, if I came back with no increase, she'd be happy! Sometimes I do just keep my thoughts to myself. I can sometimes explode - and regret it.

I'm now part-way through an X-PERT course, which is a lot better than I was expecting. The group of 20 of us attending it have got a wide variety of experience - we're not all recently diagnosed - and I'm appreciating the contact with them. It's being given by some sort of organisation that the NHS farms this out to, so the person teaching us each week has a bit more freedom to deal with our questioning of things than the diabetic nurse might have, for example. I'm really waiting till I get to the end of this 6-week course to put all my thoughts and quetions together, and then I'll be back to my GP!

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I've been being tested because of pre-diabetic resulta for almost a decade, so I've had plenty of years to get used to how much the NHS isn't exactly proactive about this!

In May I had the T2 diagnosis and had a couple of sessions back with the nurse almost straightaway as I had more questions to ask. I then had a 3-month's later HbA1c test - with exactly the same results. The nurse said that she'd re-test me in 9 months' time, and that as far as she was concerned, if I came back with no increase, she'd be happy! Sometimes I do just keep my thoughts to myself. I can sometimes explode - and regret it.

I'm now part-way through an X-PERT course, which is a lot better than I was expecting. The group of 20 of us attending it have got a wide variety of experience - we're not all recently diagnosed - and I'm appreciating the contact with them. It's being given by some sort of organisation that the NHS farms this out to, so the person teaching us each week has a bit more freedom to deal with our questioning of things than the diabetic nurse might have, for example. I'm really waiting till I get to the end of this 6-week course to put all my thoughts and quetions together, and then I'll be back to my GP!

If it was me, I wouldn't wait, I would just make an appointment and ask for metformin. And also for 3 monthly blood tests until below 42 HbA1c, then 6 monthly.

 

[JenniferW]

If it was me, I wouldn't wait, .... I would just make an appointment and ask for metformin. And also for 3 monthly blood tests until below 42 HbA1c, then 6 monthly.

I wasn't going to rush to ask for metformin because partly from what people here have said and partly what they're teaching on the course, I wonder if that might not be the most appropriate start. But I was already thinking about asking for another Hb1ac sooner than they're planning.

In general, now I've thought of having a week or two of making very careful records of food and exercise as well as test results, I do actually want to do that. One thing, for example, is that I think I've been regularly having dawn phenomena high readings, and I have the impression metformin might not be the most appropriate medication for that. And if the morning readings stay high, regardless of lower levels later in the day, the HbA1c is going to stay higher, isn't it?

I feel I'm hi-jacking someone else's thread here, though. I gave the details of my experiences because I saw some similarities. Where are you yourself now at, TigerLily?

 

[runner2009]

A couple of things. Why not do a fast and then give yourself your own glucose tolerance test?

It's easy to do.. Wake up at say 6am test and then drink 75g of glucose tabs dissolved in water.

Test and record your BG every 1/2 hour for 3/to 4/ hours making sure you are reading or watching TV.

Check out how your test results compared to these figures ( there are others just Google )
http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/diabetes/diagnosing-diabetes

2nd I've always felt that pre-diabetes was a mistaken diagnosis. Basically, you have to do the same life style changes as if you were diagnosed with diabetes.

A person with stage 1/cancer still has cancer - you don't have pre-cancer.

Most people with pre-diabetes or metabolic syndrome end up with diabetes.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Most people with pre-diabetes or metabolic syndrome end up with diabetes.

Only because they are given incorrect medical advice or none at all. If they were told how to prevent progression they would be able to avoid it. Lots of people at this forum have done this.

 

[tigerlily72]

I wasn't going to rush to ask for metformin because partly from what people here have said and partly what they're teaching on the course, I wonder if that might not be the most appropriate start. But I was already thinking about asking for another Hb1ac sooner than they're planning.

In general, now I've thought of having a week or two of making very careful records of food and exercise as well as test results, I do actually want to do that. One thing, for example, is that I think I've been regularly having dawn phenomena high readings, and I have the impression metformin might not be the most appropriate medication for that. And if the morning readings stay high, regardless of lower levels later in the day, the HbA1c is going to stay higher, isn't it?

I feel I'm hi-jacking someone else's thread here, though. I gave the details of my experiences because I saw some similarities. Where are you yourself now at, TigerLily?

Don't worry about hi-jacking the thread as it's good to share experiences, good or not so good! I've drastically changed my diet but have a 2nd blood test pending which I'm having done on Thursday this week.

I'm guessing the Diabetic Nurse at the surgery I go to will then contact me / make an appointment. I will keep update everyone once the results are in . . .

 

[notafanofsugar]

Just for anyone that may not have seen some of my previous posts . . . I had a full blood test over a week ago which came back with fasting blood glucose of 8.1 and HbA1c of 44. I was told by my GP that I AM diabetic (T2) but need a 2nd fasting blood test. She told me she doubted it would return a score of below 6.

Anyway, I've been very strict with myself since Wednesday of this week when I got my results and saw her. I've just used my Codefree that I bought earlier this year as I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic in Dec 2014. I hadn't eaten for just over 3 hours and my result was 6.0.

Pretty pleased with myself Now, I'm wondering if it's possible to "reverse" this and if (just perhaps) I may still be pre-diabetic? . . . .

It is possible to reverse T2D from what I've read - really excited to read your story! x

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,
Just wanted to interject an alternative viewpoint into the thread.

I am a type 2 diabetic. Have been for 3-5 years. After 10+ years of pre-D. But i am not diagnosed T2. I have kept my blood glucose tests low by diet and exercise. My HbA1c has been too low for diagnosis (so far), and while my fasting bg is often over 7, it hasn't been on the rare occasion that my surgery gives me the test (averages every 1 x every 18 months).

Reversal is a lovely idea, and a possibility for some of us. Assuming that clamping down on diet, and losing weight MAY work for you is a great goal, but it may not work for you. It doesn't always. I have never had a fatty liver, so losing the fat won't reverse D for me.

So, here i am, 5 ish years after developing T2. Undiagnosed. No foot or eye checks. No HbA1c, unless i can persuade them. No metformin (which would help my morning readings, and my appetite, and maybe help a little with heart protection). If i had an accident, and was hospitalised, my diabetes would not be factored in to my treatment regime. I have paid privately for HbA1cs. If i was on metformin, i would get free prescriptions and (maybe) free test strips.

With a diagnosis, I would receive all of those, which would give me far more information, checks and backup when managing this condition. It isn't about the money. It is about checks for retinopathy, neuropathy, kidney failure.

In your place, i would go for reversal and dietary control, and i would bust a gut to do so, but i would wait until AFTER that next fasting blood test, and if i came away from it with a diagnosis, i would see it as a positive thing. And THEN i would turn my life around and stun the doc and nurse with my impressive control and hoped for reversal.

The benefits of having been diagnosed outweigh the cons - IMHO.