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Statins a blanket policy

This is interesting. It is a report from a hospital regarding CVE admissions.
www.cureus.com

Demographics and Characteristics of Patients Admitted With Acute Coronary Syndrome to the Coronary Care Unit at King Abdulaziz University

Background Over the previous decade, the incidence of cardiovascular diseases (CVDs) has risen in the Middle East and will increase mortality to 23 million individuals in Saudi Arabia by 2030, according to the Saudi Ministry of Health. CVDs, including acute coronary syndrome (ACS), are the most...
www.cureus.com www.cureus.com
In th Outcomes section, they report that some patients suffered further MI events, and this is their analysis
"The rate of reinfarction was significantly higher among patients on lipid-lowering medications before their first hospital admission than among those who were not on medication (22.97% and 10.61%, respectively, P = 0.012)."

And also
"The readmission percentage was higher among females than among males (19.35% and 15.47%, respectively). Patients on lipid-lowering medications before hospital admission had a higher percentage of readmission than medically free patients (20.27% and 9.49%, respectively, P = 0.014). NSTEMI was the most common presentation among all readmissions."

These are actual admissions to coronary care, so not a fabricated drug study.

But here is a connundrum in the report. The conclusion section reads completely differently, and appears to be written by another author. The conclusion section extols the virtues of using statins and that people need to get their LDL <1.8 mmol/l. There is no reference to the quotes I noted above, and indeed there is another para where it was stated that the readmission group had considerably reduced their LDL-c levels since discharge from the first admission, but still had a readmission for MI. There was no reference to this at all in the conclusion. I wonder who paid the piper?
 
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Oldvatr said:
Dr Ken D Berry of Camden had his licence to practice revoked in Jan 2018. He features heavily in quackwatch, mainly for his keto diet stance. He is now affiliated to Diet Doctor He is a proponent for the Ketovore diet.
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When you say something that doesn’t conform to the norm, licences tend to get revoked. There are plenty more like him that make far more sense to me than the so-called conformists.

Medical students are often told that half of what they are being taught will be proven wrong. The trouble is that they don’t know which half!
Not helped by very powerful Pharmaceutical companies throwing billions of Dollars and influence at Doctors with bad science.

(mod edit to comply with forum ethos)
 
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In Response said:
Is t2 the cause of is there a correlation between t2 and CHD?
For example, there is a correlation between t2 and obesity and between obesity and CHD. Is t2 the link or obesity?

This is a genuine question not a given or even an assumption.
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Medical records show that Diabetics die younger than the general population. Generally the COD is listed as CVD which includes blood clots and strokes, rather than just heart problems. Of course there are other reasons why the heart stops which may or may not associated with diabetes. And we are talking diabetes of all flavours - it is not limited to T2D.
 
Hi, just adding my experience to this thread. I'm 63. I've been controlling my D2 well for the last 2 years, I'm at my healthy weight, don't smoke, drink, or eat rubbish, and exercise regularly. I'm a Veggie. But they are still threatening me with Statins! The Diabetes Nurses at my surgery have repeatedly said "I can add them to your prescription"! Even though I have refused Statins in writing to the Practice Manager! It's getting tedious.
 
Radicalcartoons said:
Hi, just adding my experience to this thread. I'm 63. I've been controlling my D2 well for the last 2 years, I'm at my healthy weight, don't smoke, drink, or eat rubbish, and exercise regularly. I'm a Veggie. But they are still threatening me with Statins! The Diabetes Nurses at my surgery have repeatedly said "I can add them to your prescription"! Even though I have refused Statins in writing to the Practice Manager! It's getting tedious.
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Thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m not surprised by your Diabetes Nurse.
I was lucky as mine’s father had experienced exactly the same problems I was having. I had emailed both her and my Cardiac Centre to say that I was going to reduce my Statins by half to see if my problems reduced. A week later, she called me in for a blood test to check my Cholesterol levels which had increase, but not too much.
Having explained my thoughts to her re the NHS’s wrong/outdated advice re Cholesterol levels, she admitted that her own father had suffered the same problems I was having with Statins and took himself completely off them.
I immediately followed suit!
Three weeks later, the Cardiac centre rang me to say they had received my email. I was expecting a right ticking off for refusing to take my Statins. But they said “Ok, that’s fine”.
Since then my Doctor’s Prescription department leader has tried hard to convince me to go back on them.
Guess what she was told?
Including a reminder by me that she should have been warned that half of what she was taught would eventually be proven to be wrong.

I see you are veggie, which is fine and I totally respect. However, I have recently stated on the Carnivore diet and have to say I’m really enjoying it and find that it is helping me lose weight.
I’m stunned to find it is yet another thing that completely flies in the face of what we were originally taught!
I need to rehearse what I will tell them when they start worrying me about my undoubtedly higher Cholesterol figures this will show at my next blood test. Despite the fact that I’m really hoping my HbA1c levels will have put me below 41 and therefore I’ll no longer be pre-diabetic.

I really do believe that we need to be strong in our beliefs are impress on our Medics that it is our Bodies and we will do what we think is right, rather than be bullied into doing things we feel are in fact dangerous to us.
 
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Radicalcartoons said:
Hi, just adding my experience to this thread. I'm 63. I've been controlling my D2 well for the last 2 years, I'm at my healthy weight, don't smoke, drink, or eat rubbish, and exercise regularly. I'm a Veggie. But they are still threatening me with Statins! The Diabetes Nurses at my surgery have repeatedly said "I can add them to your prescription"! Even though I have refused Statins in writing to the Practice Manager! It's getting tedious.
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Sadly, they are managed by the NICE Guideline NG28 which has become the "Ten Commandments" for the treatment of T2 diabetes. Although supposedly only guidelines they have become the only routemap the HCP's can use since deviation from them opens up the physisician and the Practice to legal retribution and possible legal action.

The NG 28 has recently been revised, and now EVERY paragraph has had the phrase "for adults with type 2 diabetes" added as a qualifier, making it a legal device.
 
Oldvatr said:
Dr Ken D Berry of Camden had his licence to practice revoked in Jan 2018. He features heavily in quackwatch, mainly for his keto diet stance. He is now affiliated to Diet Doctor He is a proponent for the Ketovore diet.
Click to expand...
His licence wasn’t revoked but placed on probation and it related to infection control not medical advice, highlighting mine.


Ken D. Berry, MD, Camden
Guilty of unprofessional conduct; to wit: The Board adopts, as is fully set out herein, rules 1200-14-03.01 through 1200-14-03-.03 inclusive, of the Department of Health and as they may from time to time be amended, as its rule governing the process for implementing universal precautions for the prevention of HIV transmissions for health care workers under its jurisdiction.
License placed on probation to extend two years following the expiration of previous period of probation with terms; assessed civil penalties in the amount of $3,000.00 plus costs not to exceed $10,000.00

The previous probation is in here https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/health/dar/May.2016.DAR.pdf and seems to relate to improper history and treatment/documentation treating a family member.

I’m not justifying either as a good practice, but both appear unrelated to his dietary views and knowledge.
 
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I have been on statin for years, but after diagnosed with diabetes. My lipids are normal now. I am in US. Do they ever take you off statin?
 
Dual Stream said:
Make of this whatever you will.
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Dr Ken Berry is an affiliate member of DietDoctor.com. He is a strong proponent for the Ketovore Diet. I note that the science to back up his points is lacking at the moment. There is some evidence that there may possibly be an association, but the trials have not been conducted. The trials done by Harvard et al showed that there was no association between statins and dementia, and a meta analysis of 36 studies showed a reduction in risk. More work is needed.

Do statins increase the risk of dementia and Alzheimer’s disease?

Your access to the latest cardiovascular news, science, tools and resources.
www.escardio.org www.escardio.org

Make what you will of that.
 
Dual Stream said:
Make of this whatever you will.
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To be quite frank. If the statins were effecting cognitive or memory in a patient prescribed them. If they are independent & not under some sort of existing “care package.” Wouldn’t there be a higher chance they would forget to take them, (along with other signs of dementia like personal hygiene regime. Which seems to be common?) thus lowering & even extinguishing these “side effects” after a while..? ;) So the good news, to my reasoning. Anyone prescribed this drug would come back to us. (Providing they aren’t precautionary prescribed with an already existing issue?)

Oddly, with my 90 coming up to 91 year old mum’s Alzheimer’s. There are absolutely no markers to her lifestyle why the NHS believes how she got “it.”
But she had been vegetarian & dabbled with vegan for many many years.. Now on a “varied diet” forgot about the previous diet. (With me looking after. Lower carb. We both gotta eat.) Her condition has not “progressed.” To my mind. (If you want to call it that.) & oddly, with the time I spend with her she can remember that she couldn’t remember the tunes in a Eurovision contest we watched the night before? Lol, diagnose me too.. neither could I. & I refuse statins. She never could get her head round what’s going on in a movie back in her day, either.. (I always had to supply the narrative.)
 
Albion453 said:
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
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I was prescribed statins when first diagnosed with an hba1c of 48. Within 6 months this had increased to 54 and, after I stopped taking them due to other side effects, it dropped to 43 within another 6 months. I have since maintained my hba1c at normal levels but refuse to take statins.
 
Albion453 said:
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
Click to expand...
I was prescribed statin before and I refused it. Couldn't refuse it anymore after covid made my cholesterol shoot up to 18. But then horrible things happened with first 2 weeks of 20mg. I was doing great doing my walking aerobic exercises...then suddenly found I could hardly finis my usual 45 minute daily exercise without panting for breath. Was puzzled about it thought maybe was having relapse on my long covid. Anyway...3rd of statin, was told to increase to 40mg. Within 2 days, could only do 10 minutes of 45 minute exercise... my arms ached and my legs were so weak could hardly stand. I even ended up having to go upstairs on fours as my muscles were so weak. Made me think.... stopped the statin and within 2 days the muscle weakness and other awful feelings went away. NEVER AGAIN. And yes, read many testimonies where people who weren't diabetics became diabetics because of statin; diabetics' sugar went further up. Statin is a multibillion dollar industry and was found to be effective only on 1/100. Need I say more? Dr. Malcolm Kendrick wrote a book called Statin Nation.
 
Albion453 said:
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
Click to expand...
Been type 2 for years and never been offered statins....most people get offered metformin
 
Albion453 said:
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
Click to expand...
I was offered statins by my diabetes nurse, she said ‘I have to offer You them’ even though my level was 4.5! As a trained Complementary Therapist I see no reason to offer those with low levels drunks that have lots of side effects.
 
Outlier said:
As with all things, it should be an individual choice, and what suits some does not suit others. Some people can tolerate these, others are made rather ill. I have known many of the latter, and so on my own behalf have declined them. That isn't to say I am right or wrong, just saying what I have done and why. Before taking this decision, I did a great deal of study from proper peer-reviewed research in the public domain. Somewhere on this site ( please could someone more tech-savvy than me locate it?) there is a big and very interesting thread on statins which I recommend reading.

Many GPs are pushing statins at the moment because there is a substantial cash benefit to them for prescribing it. While there are other factors to bear in mind, this is worth knowing. Ultimately for each of us, it is our own decision.
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That is right, I had a patient who worked in Drs surger and enlightened me as to the nice dinners etc by reps
 
I had a kidney transplant 10 months ago, and I am doing reasonably well since then. However, I have been on Rosuvastatin for years, and lately my sugar levels seem elevated. Should I discontinue my statins? I am Type-2 diabetic., no history of cardio-vascular diseases. Could someone comment/advice? Thank you in advance. Raj
 
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