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Statins for reducing risk of TIA/Stroke, not for cholesterol

Bluetit1802 said:
Thank you Catherine.

I have discarded the idea of the blood thinners. I've had no blood tests to see if I need them, and my gut feeling is I don't need them. When I bleed, my blood runs freely. On my last blood test it took several minutes to stop the external bleeding, and I am still bruised 3 weeks on. She did say these tablets do the same job as aspirin, but research has shown them to be more effective. She will have offered it as a precaution. She is one of those doctors that offers everything as a precaution!

I must now find out about the statins. I didn't have any side effects when I took them, but I only took them just over 3 months.
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Saw this you tube clip and thought it might be useful because it moves on to when statins are beneficial. (Starts talking about cholesterol so have patience with it! )
Hope this helps!
 
Bluetit1802 said:
A few weeks ago I had a routine CT scan, which was thankfully clear. However, it did show up a low intensity, non-severe thinning or weakness in one area of my brain that was likely due to reduced blood supply. The GP suggests this is a risk factor for future TIA or stroke. She said taking my statins would help reduce this risk (irrespective of what my cholesterol might be and irrespective of my diabetes). She also mentioned a blood thinning agent called Clopidogrel. She sent me away to do my own research on the effect of statins on reducing the risk of TIA and strokes (she knows me too well!!) saying as a doctor she is recommending I take the statins, but is leaving the decision entirely up to me with no pressure.
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There are basically two ways a stroke can happen ischemic where a blood vessel is blocked and hemorrhagic where a blood vessel bursts/leaks.

"Blood thinning" drugs are only of help with the former, at best they are useless with the latter.
Also low cholesterol is associated with an increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke.
 
PatsyB said:
No sorry but I am on statins and wondering wether to stop taking them...looks like there is two schools of thought for these drugs but which is the right one??
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There simply dosn't appear to be any clinical evidence that they are of any value to women (and most men) at all.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Thank you Catherine.

I have discarded the idea of the blood thinners. I've had no blood tests to see if I need them, and my gut feeling is I don't need them. When I bleed, my blood runs freely. On my last blood test it took several minutes to stop the external bleeding, and I am still bruised 3 weeks on.
Click to expand...

Sounds like, if anything, you need something to ensure your blood clots more quickly.

She did say these tablets do the same job as aspirin, but research has shown them to be more effective. She will have offered it as a precaution. She is one of those doctors that offers everything as a precaution!
Click to expand...

A big problem with the "precautionary principle" is that actions taken it's name are often anything but. In the worst case setting up a positive feedback loop where the actions taken make things worst, but nobody involved with consider this as a possibility. Instead insisting that "more of the same" is the way to go.
 
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Scandichic said:
Saw this you tube clip and thought it might be useful because it moves on to when statins are beneficial. (Starts talking about cholesterol so have patience with it! )
Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Thanks Scandi for that video. I found it very interesting.

Much of the research I have found involves trials with patients that have high cholesterol. I don't have high cholesterol. Also, the primary and most important predictor of a stroke is high blood pressure. I don't have high blood pressure. (rarely higher than 120 using my own monitor) None of the trials I found mention diet or weight issues amongst the participants. The only reasons my GP is recommending I return to my statins is because my CVD risk is 20% (almost half of which is due to being a diabetic, with no way of entering HbA1c results to the equation. If you are diabetic, no matter what your control, your risk is doubled on the calculator) and because this subtle low attenuation (possibly ischaemic in nature) appeared on my CT scan (done for other reasons). Added to which, low cholesterol is as equally damaging as high cholesterol.

I am slowly talking myself out of taking them again. It isn't the physical side effects that bother me, I didn't have any. It's the hidden ones that concern me.

Thank you everyone for your input.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Thanks Scandi for that video. I found it very interesting.

Much of the research I have found involves trials with patients that have high cholesterol. I don't have high cholesterol. Also, the primary and most important predictor of a stroke is high blood pressure. I don't have high blood pressure. (rarely higher than 120 using my own monitor) None of the trials I found mention diet or weight issues amongst the participants. The only reasons my GP is recommending I return to my statins is because my CVD risk is 20% (almost half of which is due to being a diabetic, with no way of entering HbA1c results to the equation. If you are diabetic, no matter what your control, your risk is doubled on the calculator) and because this subtle low attenuation (possibly ischaemic in nature) appeared on my CT scan (done for other reasons). Added to which, low cholesterol is as equally damaging as high cholesterol.

I am slowly talking myself out of taking them again. It isn't the physical side effects that bother me, I didn't have any. It's the hidden ones that concern me.

Thank you everyone for your input.
Click to expand...

Have you been onto the qrisk site: http://www.qrisk.org/index.php to check the percentages for yourself? I understand this is the site our medics use.
 
How did you get it to 20? Declaring my T2 only takes me to 6 (numbers from memory, but it's generally not too bad). Without my T2, I would be 2.9%.
 
With just my height and weight details, post code (rural) and my age I am 8.9!!! My BMI is 23! I can't help being 66.:(
 
Hi Bluetit1802. As you know, I'm only just learning about Diabetes but as for the Statins, I've been on them for just about 6 years. I had a Stroke in 2008. When I have a blood test, I continue to bleed, once it carried on outside the surgery and because you can't feel your own blood, a lady passing by had to tell me it was happening so I could go back into the surgery to be cleaned up. This struck me as strange because the Stroke consultant had told me I have "sticky blood" because of a very high iron content and that was what caused that stroke. I was put on a high dose of Atorvastatin plus Clopidogrel and I haven't felt any side effects from either but I do wonder if they contributed to the eventual diabetes. It's so difficult and I wish medicine was an exact science. I wish you well, whatever you decide to do. :)
 
Sorry to hear about your stroke @koukla From everything I've read about stroke prevention and statins, it does seem that statins are successful in helping to prevent a second stroke after having had a first one, but the effects are less clear for prevention of first strokes. They are also more effective as regards ischaemic strokes and less effective with haemorrhage type ones. It's also clear that high blood pressure is the main primary cause of strokes. My BP is on the low side of normal. It is all very confusing, and stressful when you really don't know what to do for the best. I'm not too concerned about the physical side effects, because if they happen I can stop taking them. It's the hidden side effects that concern me.
Thanks for your reply.
 
Just a quick update.

I saw my GP again today for a "review of our plans". We have reached a compromise that she has no objections to me staying off statins, and we will review the situation again after my next lot of blood tests, due in December. She was still banging on about my supposedly high risk on the Qrisk calculator, but as this takes no account of HbA1c results, simply lumping all diabetics as high risk in a one size fits all scenario, I am ignoring it. My other risk factors (BP and cholesterol/trigs plus BMI) are good.

Thanks everyone for your replies.
 
Its the Clopidogrel that made you bleed its a blood thinner, Hubs takes it instead of aspirin.
 
satindoll said:
Its the Clopidogrel that made you bleed its a blood thinner, Hubs takes it instead of aspirin.
Click to expand...

I'm not on Clopidogrel. It was suggested to me by my GP as an alternative to statins but I dismissed it completely after reading up about the very common side effects and weighing up benefits against risks.
 
Statins are a funny bunch they are supposed to stop the liver over producing Cholesterol as mine was but they can be by their effect used for thinning the blood, hubs takes both as he has stents in his arteries so need to lower liver cholesterol and thin the blood, but being on both means he has lower doses of each.,
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I was called in to see my GP with regard to statins because she has just discovered I stopped taking the ones she prescribed for on diagnosis in January. I stopped them a month before my next blood test was due, so I knew I had a safety net, and I told my DN. My next blood test came back with normal cholesterol components for non-diabetics.

A few weeks ago I had a routine CT scan, which was thankfully clear. However, it did show up a low intensity, non-severe thinning or weakness in one area of my brain that was likely due to reduced blood supply. The GP suggests this is a risk factor for future TIA or stroke. She said taking my statins would help reduce this risk (irrespective of what my cholesterol might be and irrespective of my diabetes). She also mentioned a blood thinning agent called Clopidogrel. She sent me away to do my own research on the effect of statins on reducing the risk of TIA and strokes (she knows me too well!!) saying as a doctor she is recommending I take the statins, but is leaving the decision entirely up to me with no pressure.

So, that's me, doing more research for the next few days.

Has anyone any experience of this?
Click to expand...
In this case the effect of statins would have ,for me, INCREASED my risk of strokes as I had a bleed-type stroke!.
 
I prefer to take statins and now my blood vessels are safer from my home made cholesterol than to go through another quadruple bypass, espech as I am now diabetic cose it takes along while to get over the op
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I was called in to see my GP with regard to statins because she has just discovered I stopped taking the ones she prescribed for on diagnosis in January. I stopped them a month before my next blood test was due, so I knew I had a safety net, and I told my DN. My next blood test came back with normal cholesterol components for non-diabetics.

A few weeks ago I had a routine CT scan, which was thankfully clear. However, it did show up a low intensity, non-severe thinning or weakness in one area of my brain that was likely due to reduced blood supply. The GP suggests this is a risk factor for future TIA or stroke. She said taking my statins would help reduce this risk (irrespective of what my cholesterol might be and irrespective of my diabetes). She also mentioned a blood thinning agent called Clopidogrel. She sent me away to do my own research on the effect of statins on reducing the risk of TIA and strokes (she knows me too well!!) saying as a doctor she is recommending I take the statins, but is leaving the decision entirely up to me with no pressure.

So, that's me, doing more research for the next few days.

Has anyone any experience of this?
Click to expand...
 
CollieBoy said:
In this case the effect of statins would have ,for me, INCREASED my risk of strokes as I had a bleed-type stroke!.
Click to expand...
I stopped taking my stains and had a TIA mini one. I am now back on them.MRI and MRA all normal but eer not
 
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