statins, why?

Did you ask them when they suggested Statins ?

vickk said:

and that having a low cholesterol was in itself not a good reason to not go on statins.

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This kind of logic suggests that there are a whole range of pills I should be on for all sorts of other conditions I don't have.

Hi. Your doctor is like so many others re statins. They go into robot mode at the mention of them; just politely ignore him and do what you think is best. There are many reported side effects from statins and some are serious. My wife could tell you about her liver complaining violently a few days after taking them. Did her doctor issue a yellow card - of course not.

This sounds like a doctor who see's his patients then goes home, a good practitioner still keeps researching, they obviously don't read any literature that comes their way, personally I'd ask to see another doctor if you can.
Read Dr Briffa and Dr Kendrick for up to date info on statins.

as you are diet controlled only, and as such have no free prescriptions, ask him why on earth you should be stumping up nearly £8 of your hard earned money every 8 weeks for something which has a ridiculously high Number Needed To Treat and has the potential for serious side effects including death from the statins themselves.

If they want to mass medicate the population, then it should be free.

If you find out then can you let the rest of us know. Personally I think they have gone mad.

Personally I wouldnt stay with such a doctor and I'd move to another surgery immediately. What a crass comment to say "having a low cholesterol was in itself not a good reason to not go on statins". He sounds like one of those doctors who expects all his patients to have unquestioning blind faith in his advice and in turn probably believes everything he is told by the drugs reps. As for the comment "there have been no negative comments on statins from official medical sources" tell him there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of negative comments from USERS THEMSELVES. I know who I'd rather listen to.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994009/

>> In this outcomes-based trial, 2838 type II diabetic patients, none of who had suffered an acute cardiac event, and all of who had LDL levels less than 4.16 mmol/L, were randomized to atorvastatin 10 mg or a placebo. Again, in a prematurely terminated follow up period of almost four years, those randomized to the treatment group had a significantly lower incidence of cardiovascular events.

but
http://www.bozemanwellnesscenter.com/th ... tin-drugs/

>> It seems that for “preventative” use (people with no history of heart disease, cholesterol below 330 and normal HDL/Cholesterol ratios) statins do not provide any protective effect and may only increase heart disease risk. The one exception to this may be a special subgroup of the population with a genetic defect called familial hypercholesterolemia.
Better recommendations for heart protection and lowering your risk include: keeping your HDL/Total Cholesterol ratio above 24% and keeping your Triglyceride/HDL ratio below 2. This can be achieved by restricting grains and sugar from your diet, eat high quality animal-based omega-3 fats, avoid trans fats, include “heart healthy” foods in your diet (olive oil, coconut, avocados, nuts, seeds and organic grass fed meat), exercise daily, avoid smoking and drinking excessively and get plenty of rejuvenating sleep.


I seem to recall a suggestion some time ago that everyone over a certain age should be put on statins to protect from cardiovascular disease, strokes and cancer but the idea was dropped. I think due to the discovery that the downside wasn't as close to zero as first thought.

"no negative comments from official medical sources"???

How about this then:

http://www.rxlist.com/zocor-drug/warnin ... utions.htm

and the official patient information leaflet:

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-p ... 199557.pdf

Also he should read the actual leaflet that comes in the box carefully before prescribing them:

http://www.euroclinix.net/images/produc ... statin.pdf

vickk said:

Yep, his reply was that it was becoming good practice to put all Diabetics on statins and that having a low cholesterol was in itself not a good reason to not go on statins.

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Many GPs, including my own, appear unaware of hypocholesterolemia. Thus take a "lower the better" position.
There also appears to be a logical disconnect in what little information exists in that hypocholesterolemia tends to be though of as a "symptom" (of something else). Whereas hypercholesterolemia tends to be considered a problem in itself.

What dosn't help is that guidelines for hypercholesterolemia are being frequently ammended downwards, especially for diabetics.

Potentially resulting in Iatrogenic (drug induced) hypocholesterolemia. (Possibly anything below 4.1 mmol/l total.)

He also said it was good preventative measure with no drawbacks, when I asked about all the bad press statins got he just said "what bad press, there have been no negative comments on statins from official medical sources"

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At least some of these side effects would be due to hypocholesterolemia, others with low co-enzyme Q10.

Two things, of obvious interest to diabetics, which appear to be associated with chronic hypocholesterolemia are neuropathy and loss of beta cell functionality. Both of which might be attributed to diabetes...

With CNS neuropathy being identified as "mental" illness. The brain may be entirely reliant on LDL to supply its cholesterol needs. So it's the amount of cholesterol being carried by this which actually matters. Something which the medical establishment might well find heritical.

It used to be assumed that all cholesterol was bad, then good hdl and bad LDL, now there is good LDL and bad LDL and it is useful for other things than clogging up arteries.

A lot of the older studies didn't distinguish so tried to give general results.

Still, wouldn't be surprised if statins were beneficial for most type 2 diabetics though.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

vickk said:

As I have just reached 60 I don't pay for prescriptions so its not down to money. I just want to know why they would want to put me on a medicine that carries significant risk to lower my cholesterol when it is already within the required limit

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The BHF will answer any questions you may have Vickk:

http://www.bhf.org.uk/#&panel1-2


Alternatively contact Heart UK:

http://heartuk.org.uk/

yesterday on medline or medhelp it was claimed that statins, besides lowering cholesterol, have a deainite benefit for heart patients against inflamation in arteries and help to prevent deposits in the inside walls from breaking and releases particles which can block blood flow causing heart attack. The mystery to me is why don't the makers publicise this miracle.. They are happy with their immense sales to those worried about their figure?

Well you could try them, but if you experience ANY side effects that are painful just do as I eventually did and refuse to take them.

There are some people for whom they cause such drastic and painful side effects it is not worth taking them. My GP has realised this is the case with me and he often asks me to speak to medical students who visit his surgery for education which includes meeting patients and talking about their health with them. He feels its important for up and coming doctors to realise that not everyone can benefit from various drugs and each individual should be catered for.

Your doctor sounds like one who just follows the lead of whatever his health authority demands - you may take them and suffer no nasty side effects but as I say if you do get them - just say NO.

agavegertie said:

There are some people for whom they cause such drastic and painful side effects it is not worth taking them.

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I have told this story before but it is relevant to the discussion so I will repeat it.

A local friend of mine was taken to hospital in an ambulance with what appeared to be a stroke. He was paralysed on one side. The hospital diagnosed it as a statin seizure. This sounded like a major side effect to me and stopped me worrying about the pains in my legs. Both of us are now "Intolerant of Statins".

Sorry but it sounds as if you have a lazy doctor who does not look beyond the initial "facts'. He has been told statins are a wonder drug and all diabetics should take them - end of story.

I stopped taking them when the cramps got too bad, not had cramp since.

I went to my hospital appointment a few weeks ago and was taken off Aspirin - another 'wonder drug', I asked why I was being taken off them and he said because 'the thinking has changed', I think Statins will be next on the list.

I know a lot of people including myself, who were given Simvastin. They made us feel like cripples the pain they caused. but docs keep dishing them out. yet they know wer'e throwing them away. I was asked to saw mine in half as if?? :roll: