Stopped taking insulin - blood sugars fine. Advice!!

[dogday]

Hi all,
sorry about the dramatic subject. Bit of a back story diagnosed in 2003, now 24. hba1c levels around 6-6.5 so happy with that. Weigh about 12 and a half stone (~173lbs, ~78KG) with a BMI of 24.8.

Want to lose some weight and get a bit fitter so I've started a diet where by I eat no carbs and am getting a fair amount of cardio done a week (around 3 hours' worth plus and hours walk to work and back every day). Now before all this dieting started I was still quite active and was on about 12 units of levemir in the morning, same at night and taking novorapid on a carb counting basis (sometimes 4/5 times a day). Now since I am not taking any carbs during the day I have obviously had no need to inject. The first few days I was getting hypos to a point where I was taking less and less levemir of a morning and night. Now today and yesterday I am at a point where I have take 0 units of either levemir or novorapid so haven't injected in two days. The thing is I am religious about my blood sugar readings and the average has been 5.6 over the last two days (highest 8.6 which some how came down to ~6 within a few hours)

So I guess my question is, are blood sugars the only danger I have to look out for in terms of diabetes? Do I need to inject insulin for insulin's sake for a want of a better expression. Many thanks for all advice.

 

[robert72]

Hi

You may only need a very small amount of insulin. Your body needs this to make use of the small amount of glucose it needs to keep it working. As a T1, you can't give insulin up completely as you no longer make any yourself.

 

[dogday]

Hi Robert thanks for quick reply. How small are we talking? I assume it would be the levemir rather than the novorapid?

 

[robert72]

Hi dogday

I'm really no expert on low carbing. You are still getting carbs from protein but it gets broken down very slowly to glucose. I'm sure you're still eating vegetables and they contain carbs as well. I couldn't say how much insulin you need, you'd need to see how your BGs respond.

Maybe some other members here can give better advice. You might also want to read the Diabetes Solution by Dr Richard Bernstein which is all about low carbing for diabetics.

 

[dogday]

I see thanks very much! I think I will inject 2 units of levemir just to be on the safe side tonight!!

 

[cloud1240]

Ok you need to work out a basal level. Even if you don't eat any carb you blood sugar will creep up overtime. Insulin is only one side of an equation - your body still produces Glycogen which is like the opposite of insulin. It raisies blood sugar in the body. Your body will naturally release Glycogen - this increases with stress, adrenaline and other factors and sometimes excercise.

Have you done Dafne course or talked to your diabetic nurse/consultant about your change in diet. You basically need a small amount of insulin throughout the day to keep your blood sugar level.

That is one of the advantages of a pump is that you don't need to eat carb so much. The problem with long acting insulins is they do have a bit of a hump which can push your blood sugar down. You still do need to have at least some long acting though.

 

[Pneu]

First off you must not stop taking insulin! it is used by your body for a lot more than just regulating blood glucose and if you are exercising is vital for triggering your body to replenish glycogen stores in your muscles. If you take no insulin even with good blood glucose eventually your body will run out of energy and that would be unpleasant.

If you are in the position whereby you are having to massively reduce your background insulin to avoid hypo then you need to increase your carbohydrate intake. I go through phases of doing more exercise.. where I might do 10K on the bike and probably 5 - 10k walking a day.. in these situations I would not take any rapid insulin.. but I would probably go from eating 60g carbs / day to 200g+ carbs per day.. As long as your overall calorific intake is low enough then you will still lose weight.

 

[stevie24]

You could develop Ketones with out any insulin at all as your body needs something to live off with out Carbs, ie, fat. Therefore you could be putting yourself at risk

 

[anna29]

Hi...
Even though you say your blood sugar levels are fine [now] ?
Gradually over a short time they WILL rise up again...
Best to keep some insulin in your body to keep things at an even keel and safe level.
We all 'know' what the professionals will say if we skipped our insulin doses!!!
Anna.

 

[cherri]

Hi, i didnt use my insulin for a few days some years back, and i ended up in hospital almost dead. Its not something to take chances on, i think you should take some(if not the full dose) every day until you can speak to your doctor or nurse. When i was in hospital the first nurse said that i didnt have ketoacidosis cos my sugar wasnt high enough, but it was cos i had taken a couple of units of my cousins actrapid a couple of times. If you start feeling tired, thirsty, sick and if you cant see infront of you you must get to the hospital - no messing about. When that happened to me i couldnt walk anymore and was gasping for breath and another 30mins i would have been dead. Also if you are able to test yourself for ketones that would be good. If you have ketones get to the hospital straight away. Hope you are ok and stay safe.

Lesley

 

[the_exile]

To echo what everyone else is saying, you must take insulin, even if it's a small amount of background insulin, you need glucose to feed your body, even although you are on a carb free diet you will still be taking in glucose, some proteins convert to glucose I think in the body, therefore if you've no insulin on board, your body cannot convert that glucose into energy for your muscles etc, and your body thinks it's literally starving, and so starts burning your fat reserves, and a by-product of that is ketones, and you will eventually develop DKA (Diabetic Ketoacidiosis) which to be blunt, will kill you unless you get immediate emergency treatment.

Have I scared you enough into taking some insulin? :mrgreen:

 

[nmr1991]

I'm a type 1 and I had a little experiment, so blame me for being so experimental with things its just in my nature, only taking Lantus for the 3 days (9 units per night) and I had 2 courses of food each day (lunch and tea), they weren't really high in carbohydrates so I didn't take any Novorapid, my blood sugar stays between 6 and 10 and if it appears just over 10 like 10.5, I won't bother with fast acting insulin. Also used ketostix to check for ketones and they are negative. Also another strange thing is, I don't suffer any symptom of high blood sugar over the 3 days apart from the occasional tiredness which is common since my sleeping pattern is stuck with me sleeping during the day and awake during the night.

 

[Bowties]

I tried something similar a few years ago. I noticed that with a combination of Cannabis and exercise (not at the same time, that would never work), I was able to keep mt Sugar levels at a 'normal' level.

I explained this to my nurse but was told to keep taking Insulin, even if it was a small amount each day.

 

[SamJB]

I've had a think about this one. Before insulin cam along, if you were diagnosed with T1 then you'd die. Insulin is not only used for cellular glucose intake. Take a look a the Wikipedia page on Insulin that tells you what else insulin dose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Ph ... al_effects).

I work in Oncology drug design. Point 2 stands out to me: Insulin causes an increase of DNA replication and protein synthesis via control of amino acid uptake. So a lack of insulin will interfere with this process. Interfering in DNA replication is the cause for most cancers. Plus, if DNA isn't replicating then that means the old cells aren't dying and new ones aren't being produced as they should be. In addition, your cells need amino acids (the building blocks for everything in living tissue) to function properly.

Another point says that a lack of insulin will shrink your arteries, reducing blood flow. Another says that you will put your kidneys under more strain.

When you exercise, your body produces a hormone that makes your cells more absorbent. Does this hormone do all the things that insulin dose? I doubt it, otherwise what would be the point in having two hormones for one job? The bottom line is that you're playing with fire by not taking insulin. I wouldn't risk it - just eat some carbs!

 

[Ambersilva]

I am not posting to be alarmist but...

I had a Type 1 diabetic colleague who stopped injecting insulin because she was experiencing frequent hypoglycemic episodes. Although her blood glucose levels remained at "normal" levels, within two months of stopping insulin she became confused and unable to function efficiently. Within five months she was dead.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Hi dogday

You must take insulin even with just a few carbs, it is just too dangerous :shock: :thumbdown: Please think seriously about what you are doing. With Type 1 there IS a reason why we have to take insulin. RRB

 

[SamJB]

I am not posting to be alarmist but...

I had a Type 1 diabetic colleague who stopped injecting insulin because she was experiencing frequent hypoglycemic episodes. Although her blood glucose levels remained at "normal" levels, within two months of stopping insulin she became confused and unable to function efficiently. Within five months she was dead.

That really saddens me. That poor person.

This matches well with another one of the points in the Wikipedia article that says insulin is also used for cognitive and other brain functions.

 

[nmr1991]

Whatever you do (for T1) keep injecting your slow/long acting insulin (Lantus) every night/day otherwise you will find yourself in a difficult situation and will be in need of emergency care and probably find yourself in the severe situation in hospital under monitoring to get back to normal.

 

[Ambersilva]

I am not posting to be alarmist but...

I had a Type 1 diabetic colleague who stopped injecting insulin because she was experiencing frequent hypoglycemic episodes. Although her blood glucose levels remained at "normal" levels, within two months of stopping insulin she became confused and unable to function efficiently. Within five months she was dead.

That really saddens me. That poor person.

This matches well with another one of the points in the Wikipedia article that says insulin is also used for cognitive and other brain functions.

The lady had a stroke. An MRI scan showed that her Brain Stem which is responsible for breathing was affected. It was inoperable. She remained on Life Support until her family could come down from Scotland.

 

[SamJB]

That is so awful. So sad. A reminder that we really must look after ourselves including taking insulin.