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Strange Symptoms, Worry

Grateful

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,399
Location
Kent, United Kingdom
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Good morning dear virtual friends. Sorry, this is very long (brevity is not my forte).

When I was diagnosed with T2D nine months ago, I had none of the symptoms. It is true that for more than five years, I have been urinating more frequently than when I was a young man, but it was not dramatic. It was probably every two or three hours. It was never a major issue except that, for instance, when going to a lengthy concert or theater performance I would feel the need to use the toilet during the interval. I was not thirsty, I was not hungry, I was not losing weight. After the diagnosis, I brought my BG totally under control but the "old man's peeing habits" continued. It did not bother me.

Since the diagnosis in February of this year, I seem to have been successful in controlling T2 using diet/exercise only (see signature). This "therapy" was prescribed by my GP, who is someone that counsels the "low-carb" approach to T2D treatment when appropriate. I will call him Dr. K.

Recently though, two strange symptoms have appeared:
  • Even though my bowel movements have been regular on the low-carb diet (with adjustments to add more fiber), I have had two episodes in the past three weeks where it became clear I was not totally evacuating, as it were. On those two occasions I would "go" several times during the space of a few hours and considerable quantities emerged (normal, not diarreah). On both occasions, this was preceded by considerable abdominal pain (bad enough that I wondered whether I should go to A&E). The pain resolved as soon as I had emptied my bowels, over a period of a few hours.
  • One week ago I started having a constant and urgent desire to urinate, even when my bladder is empty or nearly empty. It is not painful, it is just a constant desire to "go." It is bad enough that it wakes me up around 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. and I then have great difficulty getting back to sleep because of this constant desire to relieve myself. By the way, I am not thirsty. The beginning of this problem coincided with the second "bowel episode" described in my previous paragraph. Probably a coincidence?
As it happens, I was already scheduled to see Dr. K. last Wednesday for a three-monthly T2D follow-up. As you can imagine, most of the consultation ended up being devoted to my recent issues, rather than T2D. The consultation was supposed to be 10 minutes but actually lasted 45 minutes. He did his own in-house urine test (which was negative for any problems). The surgery collected additional blood and urine tests to send to the lab. He examined me twice. The second time, his vigorous prodding elicited a "yelp" of pain from me when he palpated my bladder.

Concerning the extreme constipation episodes, Dr. K. was confident they were not related to the low-carb diet, because they did not appear until I had already been on the diet for eight months. He said they would have appeared much earlier, if they were diet-related.

Dr. K. also looked through my currently extensive medicals tests. This year, for reasons totally unconnected with T2D, I have had a routine colonoscopy, and abdominal CAT scans and an MRI (these were because of a kidney stone, and an exercise-related groin injury). There is also quite a history of blood work this year. Dr. K. said that because of this recent test history, all of which I "passed" with flying colors, he could rule out most of the "bad stuff."

"@Grateful,Your symptoms make no sense at all!" said Dr. K. He seemed quite concerned, but is determined to get to the bottom of this. He did not mention diabetes by the way.

To complicate matters, in the following days the lab seems to have messed up my blood work. Dr. K. ordered quite a few tests, including of course the regular HbA1C, but so far only a handful of them have come back (and they are not the key ones). I have access to my online records and even to the lab orders from my doctor, and can see that he did indeed order quite a few tests including the A1C. I've been in touch with him and he is following up to see what happened.

So I am in limbo. Very tired, stressed, and of course worried.

I am not asking any of you to play doctor at a distance. I have a lot of respect for Dr. K. and am confident we will figure this out. Frankly I am hoping it is something incredibly banal like a UTI (and that the constipation episodes are just a one-off, and completely unrelated).

I guess I have just one question: Has any forum member with diabetes that seemed to be well-controlled had similar "peeing all the time" episodes in the way that I described above? Could this, in your experience, presage a failure of BG control? (If so, that would be awfully disappointing given that my period of "diet-only control" would have ended within nine months.)

Thank you.
 
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The "peeing all the time" symptom associated with diabetes occurs when blood glucose levels are so high that the kidney cannot reabsorb all the glucose during its filtration process. The excess glucose therefore ends up in the urine and, by an osmotic process, 'pulls' a lot of water out of the surrounding tissues into the urine. Large volumes of urine are produced and because the bladder has a limited capacity to hold urine it has to be emptied frequently. In summary the problem is polyuria (lots of urine) causing urinary frequency.

If someone has urinary frequency but their blood glucose levels are well controlled, the problem lies elsewhere.
 
Maybe (and I know you don't want to ) but just maybe this would be a good time to start testing yourself?
Self monitoring can help you see these trends before they become a problem. It may be nothing to do with Blood Sugar but by self testing you could see evidence of this. Sorry but I felt I just had to say it.
 
Maybe (and I know you don't want to ) but just maybe this would be a good time to start testing yourself?
Self monitoring can help you see these trends before they become a problem. It may be nothing to do with Blood Sugar but by self testing you could see evidence of this. Sorry but I felt I just had to say it.

Not at all. I have had the same thought myself!

During my insomniac phases I have pondered the issue and decided: Yes, it would make sense to get the meter, but only if my current "issues" turn out to be, in some way, diabetes-related.

It's a b**** though. It looks like, if you have diabetes and then get ill with something or other, there will sometimes be some ambiguity about what is going on.

All the more reason for someone with T2 to make the utmost effort to stay healthy!
 
Not at all. I have had the same thought myself!

During my insomniac phases I have pondered the issue and decided: Yes, it would make sense to get the meter, but only if my current "issues" turn out to be, in some way, diabetes-related.

It's a b**** though. It looks like, if you have diabetes and then get ill with something or other, there will sometimes be some ambiguity about what is going on.

All the more reason for someone with T2 to make the utmost effort to stay healthy!
Well at least your Doc is more open minded and won't just blame everything on Type 2.. I fear the same would not happen here for most people.
 
YES YES and thrice YES !. Peeing all the time was my main symptom. You try being on a train with only one working toilet, only to find that some stupid teenage girl is using the toilet as her own personal phone box for half an hour. The pressure in my head became unbearable, I could feel my kidneys want to explode, and I was seriously considering poking my old man out the window and water the plants as the train sped by at 85mph. My advice is listen to your body. It plays a tune, and if you hear a bum note, you gotta act.
 
Well at least your Doc is more open minded and won't just blame everything on Type 2.. I fear the same would not happen here for most people.

Yeah, he didn't even mention diabetes in connection with my symptoms. We did talk about my diabetes, but that was a self-contained (and amazing!) separate conversation that I have already described in this thread: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-doctor-and-the-low-carb-route.128698/.

The year 2017 has been altogether too exciting on the medical front. I went from not seeing doctors at all for nearly a decade, to seeing them (it seems) almost every week. I also turned 60 years old. If there were a God, I would suspect Him of testing me deliberately.

This being America, all that faffing around with doctors and tests has also generated a mountain of bills. The vast bulk of the expense is covered by my insurance company, but even so the remaining "patient co-payments" and "patient responsibility" for procedures that exceed the official "price list" have really started to add up. And I'm one of the lucky people who has enough income to afford a good insurance!
 
YES YES and thrice YES !. Peeing all the time was my main symptom. You try being on a train with only one working toilet, only to find that some stupid teenage girl is using the toilet as her own personal phone box for half an hour. The pressure in my head became unbearable, I could feel my kidneys want to explode, and I was seriously considering poking my old man out the window and water the plants as the train sped by at 85mph. My advice is listen to your body. It plays a tune, and if you hear a bum note, you gotta act.

This has been going on for a week. I'm lucky, I work from home so getting to the toilet is not an issue.

This morning I woke up at 2 a.m. and the waterworks immediately got going. So it's been: read forum, post in forum, pee. Rinse and repeat. (Yuk, what a horrible mixed metaphor.)

Anyway, it seems Dr. K. likes a challenge. Frankly, in the old days when I was never ill, I thought he was a terrible doctor. Really perfunctory. However I only saw him for annual medicals and I never had anything wrong with me. Boy, has he stepped up to the plate now!
 
I had the peeing problem only before my T2D diagnosis.

It has been back to normal for the past 2 years. Based on your HbA1c, I doubt the episodes are related to T2D.
 
I had the peeing problem only before my T2D diagnosis.

It has been back to normal for the past 2 years. Based on your HbA1c, I doubt the episodes are related to T2D.

My thoughts precisely (when I am using my head, not my feelings). As I said, the doctor also ruled out most of the "bad stuff" which is just as well, because the bowel symptoms do "fit" some of the more nasty things out there.

It will surely be figured out soon.
 
I can't explain the peeing problem (did your doctor discount prostate issues?) but the bowel issues I recognise. If they are the same as mine, they could be irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Mine come and go and are infrequent. I haven't had a flare up in 12 months. Was that discussed with your GP?
 
I can't explain the peeing problem (did your doctor discount prostate issues?) but the bowel issues I recognise. If they are the same as mine, they could be irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Mine come and go and are infrequent. I haven't had a flare up in 12 months. Was that discussed with your GP?

He did not provide any diagnosis, even tentative. He simply admitted that the symptoms, taken together and in the context of all those recent tests, "make no sense."

I have never had abdominal pain episodes in the past apart from those two times in the past three weeks. The one exception is when I had the kidney stone in May, but that is being (largely) ruled out this time. Both by Dr. K. and by the kidney specialist.

The prostate thing. Well, my PSA is extremely low and always has been. Of course it is a **** test. I really hope they don't go down that route because (in my opinion) that condition is over-tested and over-treated, leading to major quality of life issues for men who just accept being biopsied and messed around with for what is in the vast majority of cases a very slow-growing illness. (Edited to add: It killed my uncle, but he was 95. It killed my wife's uncle, but he was also in his mid-90s.)

Have you read Jerome K. Jerome's "Three Men in a Boat"? It has a wonderful passage about reading a medical encyclopedia and then worrying that one has all of the described illnesses. Nowadays, that encylopedia would be the Internet....

This too shall pass.
 
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Before diagnosis, also about 9 months ago, I did not have the drink and pee symptoms. I knew something was going on as I had many symptoms but that one was missing. I would have guessed what was happening if I had that one! Since changing my diet, bowel movements have been regular and normal so I cannot help there, and your doctor seems to be doing the right things there. Some days I have to get up in the night, late in the night, just once but not all the time. I have noticed too that some days I have extreme urgency to go, and it needs to be right now, for a pee. Other days I still go but the extreme urgency is not there. No flow problems, so unlikely to be prostate related. We do share that varying symptom it seems. I do test myself and my BG levels are well controlled so in my case at least, it appears not to be because of sudden or varying levels of BG.
 
No flow problems, so unlikely to be prostate related.

When I had the kidney stone in May, they put me on Flomax (for a few days only) to speed up the process of "passing" the stone. It only made a mild difference to the flow, which is good but not as vigorous as when I was a young man and surely that is to be expected.

Strange to be discussing these things with total strangers, but also strangely reassuring. My doctor is of course the one who will figure it out. Or, perhaps, whatever specialist he ends up sending me to next (sigh!).

At the end of this year I will make a list of all the different MDs I have seen during the year. I am becoming a major industry it seems.
 
When I had the kidney stone in May, they put me on Flomax (for a few days only) to speed up the process of "passing" the stone. It only made a mild difference to the flow, which is good but not as vigorous as when I was a young man and surely that is to be expected.

Strange to be discussing these things with total strangers, but also strangely reassuring. My doctor is of course the one who will figure it out. Or, perhaps, whatever specialist he ends up sending me to next (sigh!).

At the end of this year I will make a list of all the different MDs I have seen during the year. I am becoming a major industry it seems.

We may not have met, but that is a benefit in some ways. We have no reason to be anything other than honest in our replies and we are all fighting the same battle. The only people that come here are interested and that is seldom found closer to home in my experience.
 
We may not have met, but that is a benefit in some ways. We have no reason to be anything other than honest in our replies and we are all fighting the same battle. The only people that come here are interested and that is seldom found closer to home in my experience.

It goes even further than that. When we have vague (or less-vague, but still un-diagnosed) symptoms it is probably unfair to unveil the full scope of one's worries on family or friends. This is "unnecessary worry" IMO.

But in a place like this forum it is easier. I don't like unnecessarily worrying people (even total strangers) but -- hey -- that is to some extent what we have come here for in the first place, to discuss our worries.

What I am having could turn out to be nothing much. But it's very therapeutic to have a place to discuss it.
 
Has any forum member with diabetes that seemed to be well-controlled had similar "peeing all the time" episodes in the way that I described above? Could this, in your experience, presage a failure of BG control? (If so, that would be awfully disappointing given that my period of "diet-only control" would have ended within nine months.)

Yes, in my case caused by BP medication. Seems much worse at night, 3 visits is normal, 6 visits in the extreme.

As for bouts of being bunged up, you might like to look into intestinal flora which can make a huge difference. I've taken codeine for muscular spasms for far too long which should cause problems but I try and keep my intestinal flora healthy by taking pre and probiotics. Works well for me. Vit C powder is good in emergencies.
 
As for bouts of being bunged up, you might like to look into intestinal flora which can make a huge difference. I've taken codeine for muscular spasms for far too long which should cause problems but I try and keep my intestinal flora healthy by taking pre and probiotics. Works well for me. Vit C powder is good in emergencies.

One thing your GP may be considering is interstitial cystitis - more common in women but me do get affected too:- https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/interstitial-cystitis/. In the mean time, cutting out caffeine may help reduce the urge to pee.

Thanks! I am beginning to feel like this is an episode from "House, M.D." Not to mention what's on the other station, the "channel of Most Inconvenient."
 
For the last 8 years:
  • No contact with doctors except dentist twice a year, annual flu shot, and eye check every few years.
  • Somewhere around 2014, appts with orthopedic surgeon and hernia specialist for mysterious, exercise-induced groin pain, X-ray, MRI, nothing was ever diagnosed.
  • Stupidly, did not bother to do the (free) annual medicals offered by my GP and insurance company.
Last year (2016):
  • Dentist (twice, for cleanings).
  • Flu shot.
This year (2017):
  • Dentist (twice this year, for cleanings).
  • GP in February (for routine annual medical)
  • One week later, snail-mailed letter advises me that I have been diagnosed with T2D. HbA1c 8.3% (67).
  • Another 12 days later, first T2D consultation with GP. Put on low-carb, no-meds regimen.
  • Eye doctor (set up months ago, adding a last-minute retinopathy check after the T2 diagnosis).
  • Routine colonoscopy (as part of annual medical).
  • Podiatrist (to deal with a couple of issues, plus diabetes foot check). Two appointments.
  • Sports doctor (orthopedic surgeon) for sharp groin pain brought on by increased exercise. Three appointments.
  • X-ray, then MRI, of groin area (ordered by sports doctor). Nothing found.
  • Physiotherapy (nine sessions) for aforesaid groin pain. Moderately successful, but some pain and swelling still there.
  • Since then, half an hour of daily leg/hip exercises at home to help with groin pain.
  • Acute abdominal pain, go to A&E. Blood tests, CAT scan. Kidney stone diagnosed.
  • Two follow-up meetings with kidney specialist. Kidney stone likely caused by exercising without enough hydration.
  • Random but spectacular (and very itchy) benign skin condition blooms over entire chest and sides. Three appointments with dermatologist. Goes away on its own within two months.
  • Flu shot.
  • Two diabetes follow-ups with GP (April and August), great progress made (see signature below).
  • In last three weeks, two episodes of acute abdominal pain and extreme constipation.
  • For the past week, constant desire to urinate.
  • Routine GP appt for diabetes follow-up, but mainly devoted to aforementioned issues.
  • Frankly I have lost track, there are probably some more things that I have (thankfully) forgotten by now.
This year I turned 60 years old! Apparently I am no longer invincible!

All this, and yet I am still amazingly enough not taking any meds for anything!

These doctors and nurses are lovely people but on the whole this year has been Most Inconvenient.
 
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