T1 Disability discrimination ?

[MoonSpirit]

With ref to the UK Disability Discrimination law
Am I right in thinking that geo ring fencing (preventing or restricting use while outside the UK) of medical devices like continuous glucose monitors is probability falling foul of, The UK disability discrimination act? Travel going on holiday is a basic right for most people in the free world, so why should CGM manufacturers be allowed to make Travel difficult and dangerous. (T1 being a disability)

While on holiday (I have a boat and travel a lot) I recently encountered a problem with new Dexcom G7 unlike the previous Dexcom G6 the G7 has GEO ring fencing in the software, (maybe the new liber 3 has similar?)

GEO ring fencing checks the phones location before installing the app. as long as the apps installed before departing the UK area the App works fine while on holiday, UNTIL !!!!! if for any reason you need to reinstall, your phone gets broken, lost, pick pocketed, stolen, corrupted, dropped in the swimming pool etc you’re stuck. In the past the G6 has no ring fencing , so just buying a new phone and reinstall the software was all that was needed. Not anymore! GEO ring fencing for the G7 App means you have to cut short your holiday or business travel (very expensive and impractical) return to the UK before the software will install, or continue your holiday /business meetings without monitoring your diabetes (very dangerous)

This appears to be Disability discrimination, making it difficult and dangerous for diabetics to partake in enjoying the norms of a holiday or business travel

Failure to make reasonable adjustments, as required by the disability law.

If removing geo location from the G7 product cannot be done, A reasonable adjustment would be for Technical support to have a code or similar that they could use to reactive software for a UK diabetic temporally out of the country?

A CGM is an important medical devise, it’s not some DVD or computer game that suppliers can play around with restricting access to various graphical areas.
Being left stuck on holiday myself, I feel very let down.

What does the forum think? Is this discrimination?
If it is, unfortunately being from Jersey I’m probably not the right person to test this,
Jersey is Part of the UK Geo ring fencing area, but being a small offshore location all but with very similar Discrimination laws, but only applicable to Jersey

 

[AndBreathe]

With ref to the UK Disability Discrimination law
Am I right in thinking that geo ring fencing (preventing or restricting use while outside the UK) of medical devices like continuous glucose monitors is probability falling foul of, The UK disability discrimination act? Travel going on holiday is a basic right for most people in the free world, so why should CGM manufacturers be allowed to make Travel difficult and dangerous. (T1 being a disability)

While on holiday (I have a boat and travel a lot) I recently encountered a problem with new Dexcom G7 unlike the previous Dexcom G6 the G7 has GEO ring fencing in the software, (maybe the new liber 3 has similar?)

GEO ring fencing checks the phones location before installing the app. as long as the apps installed before departing the UK area the App works fine while on holiday. But if for any reason you need to reinstall, your phone gets broken, lost, pick pocketed stolen, corrupted etc you’re stuck. In the past just buying a new phone and reinstall the software was all that was needed as the G6 had no ring fencing. Not anymore! GEO ring fencing for G7 App means you have to cut short your holiday or business travel (very expensive and impractical) return to the UK before the software will install, or continue your holiday /business meetings without monitoring your diabetes (very dangerous)

This appears to be Disability discrimination, making it difficult and dangerous for diabetics to partake in enjoying the norms of a holiday or business travel

Failure to make reasonable adjustments, as required by the disability law.

If removing geo location from the G7 product cannot be done, A reasonable adjustment would be for Technical support to have a code or similar that they could use to reactive software for a UK diabetic temporally out of the country?

A CGM is an important medical devise, it’s not some DVD or computer game that suppliers can play around with restricting access to various graphical areas.
Being left stuck on holiday myself, I feel very let down.

What does the forum think? Is this discrimination?
If it is, unfortunately being from Jersey I’m probably not the right person to test this,
Jersey is Part of the UK Geo ring fencing area, but being a small offshore location all but with very similar Discrimination laws, but only applicable to Jersey

You could simply use a VPN connection to put you "in UK" whilst downloading your App etc. It works very well.

There are many free VPN applications, although we find for longer travelling a subscription VPN is more reliable. We have used this extensively from our boat in the tropics, in the US, Europe and currently on terra firma in SE Asia.

I know that doesn't answer your bigger query, but it does resolve the issue you appear to have encountered.

 

[MoonSpirit]

Have tried using a VPN but no luck,
The G7 app insists on using my I-phone precise location which I’m assuming is the GPS?
im not overly familiar with VPN apps but loaded the free version of one (VPN UK) location set to UK.

Without location turned on on the iPhone the G7 App won’t load and insists it needs to be turned on,
if it is turned on it comes up with location error, call technical support who can’t do anything.

The VPN doesn’t appear to have any affect, or maybe I’m doing something wrong,
(even if VPN does work, is this something an elderly T1 diabetic panicking about getting readings should be expected to try doing)

 

[In Response]

The Geo ring fencing is necessary as the regulatory requirements vary per country.
Plus it is not restricted to medical devices. It is common for all sorts of apps have different licensing in different countries.

 

[MoonSpirit]

The Geo ring fencing is necessary as the regulatory requirements vary per country.
Plus it is not restricted to medical devices. It is common for all sorts of apps have different licensing in different countries.

GEO being used for many things does not excuse disability discrimination,
Stopping a user from reloading CGM software is the equivalent of a wheelchair manufacturer finding a way of preventing a UK holiday maker from repairing a puncture in the chair tyre until after they return to the UK.
The law requires reasonable adjustments to be made, if the ring fencing has to stay there is no reason why technical support shouldn’t have some way of overriding the app when advised of someone stuck while out of the country.

 

[AndBreathe]

GEO being used for many things does not excuse disability discrimination,
Stopping a user from reloading CGM software is the equivalent of a wheelchair manufacturer finding a way of preventing a UK holiday maker from repairing a puncture in the chair tyre until after they return to the UK.
The law requires reasonable adjustments to be made, if the ring fencing has to stay there is no reason why technical support shouldn’t have some way of overriding the app when advised of someone stuck while out of the country.

I doubt that Dexcom, or any other provider will make assurances their product or services will work the whole time, else every sensor failure or inaccuracy would be deemed discrimination.

Surely, it is incumbent upon you as a user, utilising this tool, to ensure you have backup arrangements. I doubt it is discriminatory to not be able to provide a service to you at any given point of time, particularly if outside the geographic boundaries where their product, including the sensors and Apps, is designed to be used.

my view would be it’s inconvenient and frustration, but I doubt it’s unlawful.

 

[Matt2023]

Hi people, here is my two cents worth .....

I am not sure about Geo ring fencing being used, because where I live my phone thinks it's in the UK even though it has been nowhere near the UK in its entire lifetime.

When I go to Google Play store I can only download from the UK Google Play store, this is because my payment details connected to my Google account are in the UK and I also use a VPN on my phone stating that I'm in the UK.

So I cannot download the local Abbott app from Google Play store where I live, even though this is where the phone is from originally and has never left.

So my problem is in reverse but the point I am making is if I can download the UK app for Abbott here where I live with a phone that has never been in the UK before, then why can't other people replicate that and do it themselves provided they have a UK PayPal account or UK bank account for example that they can connect to their Google account.

I will however have a definitive answer to this question as yesterday I ordered two UK Libra 2 sensors to be sent to a friend's house in the UK who will FedEx it over to me and I will know for sure if the UK Abbott APP that I have downloaded onto my phone works with the Libre 2 sensors that I've just got from the UK.

If not, I will just continue to use the third party app which I'm using at the moment, which others can do in an emergency, so their Libre 2 UK sensors still work overseas should you lose the UK Abbott APP on your phone, instead of ruining your vacation and flying back home just to reinstall the UK Abbott App on your UK phone.

There are alternative apps that these sensors work with and they are not geo limited. You can download them direct from Google Play Store like "Glimp" or download direct from an APK store for free like "XDrip"

Finally and if all else fails you could try and buy the local regional sensors to where you are at the time in the world and download the local app onto your phone as you will be in that same area (If GEO Ring Fencing) or again download one of the third party apps mentioned above.

This way you can still use a sensor for example to monitor your blood should you need to without travelling back to the UK.

I agree with Moonspirit that you cannot really hold Abbott liable for discrimination if a product (Sensor) that is designed to be only used in the UK, but that company still does offer alternative sensors to where you are travelling to, so they do accommodate for those who do travel by offering their sensors in that region for most parts of the world. That is not discrimination, that is planning on the travelers part.

I wish you happy travels and hope that you do not have an issue where you lose access to your UK Abbott app, but if you do I hope some of the above suggestions help in some way.


Thanks