T2 Lchf Struggling At Running Longer Distances.

Lemonie said:

Am struggling when running over 6 miles. I've just abandoned my half marathon training plan as the longer runs were just awful and it was putting me off running altogether.

I am a diet controlled T2 diabetic who does LCHF. I eat 30g of carbs a day and have a very low Hba1c. I have to run fasted or my bg raises and the run is horrible. I have an evening meal and then run the next day around 11am fasted. Have tried just running on a bulletproof coffee but that had the same effect as food so just a black coffee for me. This is great for up to 6 miles but I really struggle over that.

I already take electrolyte salts during the day and have started taking the Saltstick Fastchews every mile during the run but tbh haven't really noticed a difference. I've also tried an almond butter sachet at mile 4 to fuel me forward for mile 6 but that doesn't work for me either. I am thinking of upping my carbs a bit as a last resort but I struggle with my weight and higher carbs kicks in cravings for me.

Does anybody have anything else I could try before going down the carbs route?

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More protein.
Protein will burn slower if in a low carb diet.
It won't give you cravings and will repair too.

DCUKMod said:

I appreciate you're not T1, Lemonie, but wondered if you'd seen this blog post? http://type1keto.com/

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@DCUKMod I am reading my way through all the back instalments of this blog and would like to comment / contact the author to tell him how much I appreciate it and his achievements, but can't see any way to do this. Please can you help?

DCUKMod said:

You have what I have access to. You should be able to find him on Twitter.

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Thanks, yes I did. But Twitter is SO not my thing!!!

Moggely said:

This is probably bad but well....don't do it then!

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Your reply made me laugh Moggely, the thing is though that (for me anyway), stopping running would cause me as much anguish as letting my glucose levels go high! It sounds daft but both would be a hard habit to break. If I miss a run I am out of sorts for the whole day.

Hi, I am running a half M tomorrow and plan to do it with no external source of glucose during the run. I am LC <30g a day, some days no carbs, just meat, eggs and cheese. My preparation could have been better, my longest run was 17km, but I am sure I can make up the 4.1km on the day. Thankfully it is a flat course.

Interestingly when I ran the 17k earlier in the week, I hadn't eaten in 6hrs or so, BSL started a bit higher than normal at 7.3 due to a delayed protein spike for lunch but gradually dropped all the way to 4.3 (after about 10-12K) after which my body jumped in and created some glucose of its own as my BSL started to rise back up into the high 4s where I stayed until I ate after the run.

Plan for tomorrow is a high protein and fat breakfast (something like 3-4 eggs and some bacon, maybe some avocado so some carbs there) and skip lunch, run is at 3.40pm. Given the time between breakfast and the run, I expect to start the run at a BSL of around 5. It will be interesting then to see if I will get the same response at 4.3 as I run, or whether I will drop too low when starting at a lower BSL. I will of course be wearing a CGM and I will be carrying dextro tabs should I need them. I should have very little insulin on board (plan to reduce morning basal by 33%) and breakfast bolus insulin should have run its course come race time, therefore I am not worried about dropping too low.

Anyway the above doesn't help you a whole lot, but I thought given the discussion here you might be interested. I can come back after the run to let you know how I got on.

CHIET1 said:

I am running a half M tomorrow and plan to do it with no external source of glucose during the run.

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@CHIET1 Did you see this link earlier on in this thread? http://type1keto.com
Although I am not yet on insulin, I found T1 Dr Lake's account of his 35 day run cheering and inspiring. The archive articles on his prior series of experimental half marathons is almost more compelling as it is like a serial - how far will he push his no-carb approach as he builds up his experience through 12 competitive runs? Spoiler - fasting comes into the picture, and his CGM falls off in the first few miles more often than I can remember.

CHIET1 said:

I can come back after the run to let you know how I got on.

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@CHIET1 I do hope you will. Good luck!

Alexandra100 said:

@CHIET1 I do hope you will. Good luck!

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Yep big fan and follower of his blog. I did ok 1hr 54. Struggled at 12km, BSL fell to 4.2 according to Libre but then I made some of my own glucose it seems as it slowly went up and I finished the race in the high 4s. No external glucose taken.

CHIET1 said:

Yep big fan and follower of his blog. I did ok 1hr 54. Struggled at 12km, BSL fell to 4.2 according to Libre but then I made some of my own glucose it seems as it slowly went up and I finished the race in the high 4s. No external glucose taken.

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Hey, well done indeed! I understand bg should not go below 3.8. (My meter goes berserk if it registers 4.4.) If this is correct, you still had some margin of safety. Do you think it was the dip in bg that made you struggle? Today I had a good day bg-wise but felt rubbish and didn't manage a run. I'm wondering if a person needs to get used to lower bgs, and will eventually feel OK with them? (That's assuming I succeed in keeping them low, which is by no means a given, even eating very low carb).

Lemmonie I've just read through, I've spotted that your calorie intake is only 1500, for someone who runs and wants to do half marathons. I'm sure you need to increase this as you are not getting enough energy as you're doing intermittent fasting.

Alexandra100 said:

Hey, well done indeed! I understand bg should not go below 3.8. (My meter goes berserk if it registers 4.4.) If this is correct, you still had some margin of safety. Do you think it was the dip in bg that made you struggle? Today I had a good day bg-wise but felt rubbish and didn't manage a run. I'm wondering if a person needs to get used to lower bgs, and will eventually feel OK with them? (That's assuming I succeed in keeping them low, which is by no means a given, even eating very low carb).

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I usually feel ok in the high threes, if gets lower than that I feel i and I will use dextro tabs.

To be honest I just don’t think I had enough training in the legs and that was the cause of my tiredness at 12km. I personally think I would perform best at normal BSLs like 4-5, it’s just so difficult to get it right at the start of the race, because of the non food elements that cause BSL to rise.

Also I tend to feel more thirsty when my BSL is out of range, even when it’s in the 7s and I definitely took on enough fluids pre run. This also slowed me down and of course it was a warm day here in CH at 22 and sunny during the race and the route was quite exposed.

In further reflection and after eating a lot this evening I am happy overall with the performance given the level of training I put into this (which was not enough). I go again next Sunday, but it’s a 12km which will be nice after today’s excursion. Depending on the start time (if in the morning) I might try that one fasted. Then I will see if I will take on another half in October.

CHIET1 said:

I usually feel ok in the high threes, if gets lower than that I feel i and I will use dextro tabs.

To be honest I just don’t think I had enough training in the legs and that was the cause of my tiredness at 12km. I personally think I would perform best at normal BSLs like 4-5, it’s just so difficult to get it right at the start of the race, because of the non food elements that cause BSL to rise.

Also I tend to feel more thirsty when my BSL is out of range, even when it’s in the 7s and I definitely took on enough fluids pre run. This also slowed me down and of course it was a warm day here in CH at 22 and sunny during the race and the route was quite exposed.

In further reflection and after eating a lot this evening

I am happy overall with the performance given the level of training I put into this (which was not enough). I go again next Sunday, but it’s a 12km which will be nice after today’s excursion. Depending on the start time (if in the morning) I might try that one fasted. Then I will see if I will take on another half in October.

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Excuse my spelling errors, I am using the app on the phone and I’m blaming the fat fingers and tiredness playing it’s part too