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T2 Lchf Struggling At Running Longer Distances.

Discussion in 'Fitness, Exercise and Sport' started by Lemonie, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Am struggling when running over 6 miles. I've just abandoned my half marathon training plan as the longer runs were just awful and it was putting me off running altogether.

    I am a diet controlled T2 diabetic who does LCHF. I eat 30g of carbs a day and have a very low Hba1c. I have to run fasted or my bg raises and the run is horrible. I have an evening meal and then run the next day around 11am fasted. Have tried just running on a bulletproof coffee but that had the same effect as food so just a black coffee for me. This is great for up to 6 miles but I really struggle over that.

    I already take electrolyte salts during the day and have started taking the Saltstick Fastchews every mile during the run but tbh haven't really noticed a difference. I've also tried an almond butter sachet at mile 4 to fuel me forward for mile 6 but that doesn't work for me either. I am thinking of upping my carbs a bit as a last resort but I struggle with my weight and higher carbs kicks in cravings for me.

    Does anybody have anything else I could try before going down the carbs route?
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Personally.. I'd run the six miles and stop rather than have more carbs (well fact of the matter is there's no way I'd want to run 6 miles at all but...). Is there any particular reason you want to run farther?
     
  3. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am in a running club and to compete in the club standards I would need to run 10 miles in a set time. I'm 50 this year and would like to have a good time for that distance. Would also like to do a half marathon. It won't be the end of the world if I don't but would like to.
     
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  4. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, six miles shouldnt need feeding in my opinion, your doing it fast but eat during the run? After 45 mhr anything you eat will bypass your blood sugar levels and will turn into instant energy but after the heart rate drops you will spike and i doubt 6 miles is take that long if your quick, I couldn't eat before running early morning but if your running at 11am, could you not eat at 6am without any ill effect?

    I found coffee was a killer before running, I would stop that for sure, coffe has a really interesting effect on us but its temporary, maybe its effects are ending during the run? Maybe worth a try?

    I honestly dont think carbs are the answer, i accepted half a banana from a kind stranger at mile 20ish at london and it gave me terrible stitch and messed me up energy wise, i used to have a small bag of cashews for long runs but 6 miles is way to short to worry about eating, or at least it was for me.

    Have you had a look at www.runsweet.com, it is aimed at type 1’s but has some very useful info, you may findsomething on there that could help?

    Have you a heart monitor? Im not saying anything but you should monitor your heart via a garmin watch or the likes, you can download a graph afterward just to be sure its not the ticker sapping your energy.

    Sorry I havent been much help, Best of luck,

    Impossible is a lie!
     
  5. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am a slow runner so 6 miles would take me around 1hr 20 mins comfortable, I can run 10k in 1hr 4 mins race pace. 8.5 miles would take me 1hr 50mins. If I was just going out to do 6 miles then I would be fine. The problem is longer runs where I was advised to feed before the problem started.

    I have a Garmin 235 and have the high heart rate alert set. I have a problem with my heart rate going high during a run sometimes but haven't figured out why sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't yet. It went high today at the end of a 3 mile run but I hadn't run for over 3 weeks. As soon as it hits 170bpm I slow down immediately till it drops down to around 150bpm again. I cross train as well so do 2 days strength and swim 3 times a week and also cycle regularly.

    I can't eat at all before I run so if I have an evening run I have to fast all day as well. Have tried eating breakfast and then fasting for an evening run but that was a big no. I just don't tend to do them anymore tbh.

    I will try running without the coffee and see if that helps. I was thinking it was giving me energy but will see. Will also have a look at runsweet thanks.
     
  6. Kim Possible

    Kim Possible Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for being thick but in what way do you struggle? Out of breath, fast heart rate, high bg, ...
    Have you tried completing the run with some scout's pace (walk then run then walk then run then ..) Over time you can build up the running part but always achieve the distance
     
  7. Moggely

    Moggely · Guest

    This is probably bad but well....don't do it then!
     
  8. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I always take about a mile to settle in to the run before I don't want to stop all the time. Then I enjoy the run and am comfortable, in the zone. It just becomes difficult after 6 miles as though all my energy has been used up and every step gets harder and harder. Just not fun anymore.
     
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  9. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of a Tommy Cooper joke.....
    I went to the doctor the other day, I said I've broken my leg in three places. He said, 'Don't go to those places.'
     
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  10. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Lemonie, I know not everybody gets running but I do and it is one of my 'pleasures' that I like to keep up. I don't do it to improve my glucose levels (although it does), I do it to keep up my heart health/lung health/mobility/bone health etc (as I am getting on a bit). I run around 5 to 6 miles and find that I am fine at the end of that but I have done a half marathon before (pre diabetes). I know you don't want to eat extra carbs but what about fuelling it with dextro tablets as you go along? Yes, they are 2 or 3 carbs apiece but you will run that off immediately. Don't be afraid of these extra carbs, I doubt they would make any difference to your glucose levels when you are running it off in a half marathon. Good luck.
     
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  11. Moggely

    Moggely · Guest

    @Mr_Pot That made my day i think sometimes one has to be just a little laid back about things now and again. However i was never a runner so don't really understand the joy in it as others do.:playful:
     
  12. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi .. Yep same. I run for pretty much the same reasons. I started as I was looking for something inexpensive I could do on my own without much equipment (learnt that lesson lol) to keep me fit heading towards my 50th. I have used dextro tabs in the past but not for running so will give them a try. I don't always want to run longer but sometimes when you are out and in the zone you don't want to stop :)
     
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  13. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Lemonie (I'm a similar age!), definitely try the dextrose tablets, they are fast acting and you would prob only need one or two to give you that extra boost after 6 miles or so. You won't get hooked on them believe me (they are chalky and almost tasteless as you know so they won't tempt you to go back on higher carbs).
     
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  14. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    What a brilliant fitness programme!!!
     
  15. SamJB

    SamJB Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Lemonie
    I do a lot of running, I've done about 2 dozen half marathons. I'm a T1 and need to have 2 dextro tablets every 15 mins to maintain my BGs. I always run fasted. If I wasn't diabetic, I really don't think I could do much more than 6 miles without any form of fast acting carbs. If you low carb, your glycogen levels are probably already pretty low, so your body can't provide sustained glucose release during exercise. Add to this, by eating something protein rich (i.e. a low carb energy boosting snack), your body takes a couple of hours to convert this to glucose, via glucneogenesis.

    So, in short, it's ok to have carbs for exercise, so long as your BGs are maintained
     
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  16. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. Have started keeping a running diary of each run with bg's before and after and other factors. I definitely need to run fasted. Have tried eating carbs the night before and eating before in the morning and that is a no go. Even a bulletproof coffee made my run worse. I've started taking jelly beans every mile which is really helping. Going to try raisins next for a more natural approach. Also having electrolyte tabs before. Have had some much better runs recently so onwards and upwards.
     
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  17. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    I appreciate you're not T1, Lemonie, but wondered if you'd seen this blog post? http://type1keto.com/

    I wonder if you've seen it @SamJB .

    Personally? I was weary just reading it!
     
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  18. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Raisins will not be the fastest acting, due to the high fructose content and also the fibre. I came across this interesting comparison between the effects of eating raisins and white bread. Unfortunately no exercise was involved:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4153099/
     
  19. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    OMG what a fascinating blog post!!! But I too feel exhausted just reading it. I haven't had time to read it all yet, but I've bookmarked it for urgent attention (even though 5ks are more my mark, and also I'm not on insulin yet). The question that comes to mind, which may be answered later in the post, is: given the runner is not over-weight, when and how does s/he make up all the fat stores that have been cannibalised during all this prolonged fasted running? This would be a concern for me, as I am seriously under-weight and really don't want to get any thinner.
     
  20. SamJB

    SamJB Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating blog! Ostensibly, we follow the same diet, but there’s no way I’d get away with such a small amount of carbs with that kind of running.

    Once, I got through 4 packs of dextro tablets on a half marathon! Then again, other times it’s been 1 pack; I have whatever I can to maintain my BGs, usually 2 dextro every 15 mins, testing my BGs every 30 mins.
     
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