T2DM Cures Through Roy Taylor's Hypocaloric Diet & Gastric Bypass

Randle283 said:

Or are there 2 distinct means of reversing T2DM and acquiring BG control?

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There are 3 .. starvation (Taylor et al), bariatric surgery and low carb/keto.

I know which I'd go for.

Bariatric patients are tested for ketones pre-op and their pre surgery fasting/ low carb diet could well start the recovery process before the op.

Taylor et al seem to be ok for the third of patients who can maintain the weight loss (although longer term results haven't yet been published to my knowledge). However as we all know crash diets are rarely effective for long term success.

I'd still opt for low carb/keto as the favoured route to take.

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Randle283 said:

We now know that there seem to be 2 potential cures (not reversals) of T2DM. One is Professor Roy Taylor's hypocaloric diet which gets the fat out of pancreas and liver. Another predates Professor Taylor's regimen: it's the accidental discovery of those who underwent gastric bypass that had their T2DM cured.

I believe Professor Taylor tried to reconcile the 2 phenomena by saying the gastric bypass resulted in the pancreas fat being removed. But I don't believe most researchers believed that, at least not at the time: the reversal of T2DM was almost instantaneous and they felt that it was the gut hormones (such as incretins) that played role in restoring BG control.

What is the latest on these debates? Has anyone looked into the 2 phenomena and tried to reconcile them? Or are there 2 distinct means of reversing T2DM and acquiring BG control?

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I wouldn’t use the word cure for the hypocaloric diet. Cure implies gone for good. The results of the carefully selected participants are only successful for about half of them and that number declines by the 2 yr mark. Remission/reversal are a more accepted definitions and used within the medical community and by Taylor himself.

HSSS said:

I wouldn’t use the word cure for the hypocaloric diet. Cure implies gone for good. The results of the carefully selected participants are only successful for about half of them and that number declines by the 2 yr mark. Remission/reversal are a more accepted definitions and used within the medical community and by Taylor himself.

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I second what @HSSS says. We have seen people who 'succeded' with hypocaloric diet to reverse their T2D only to come back in a few months to either try it again,, or to find a more lasting solution. Now, Bariatric surgery is offered by the NHS as a way of treating T2D as a permanenr solution. But it seems that although the surgery is non reversible, the effects on T2D from it are, and it is not a cure by any means. The only Gastric procedure that seems to offer the effect of reversal is the expensive Roux-Y procedure, and the other more normal bariatric surgeries are not so effective.

As has been pointed out the Taylor diet plan has less than 50% success and that is in carefully selected participants (BMI, time since diagnosis, non insulin use) We have yet to see the long term resilence of the remission but it is not perfect, and depends on lifestyle changes and weight maintenance as a long term requisite, or re-cycling of the diet plan periodically.

As @bulkbiker says, the Taylor plan uses diet shakes that are both low calorie and low carb, so doing the plan is actually doing LC diet with low energy levels, which is not sustainable long term. it would be a starvation diet if prolonged.

First of all the word cure shouldn't be used in the debate.
If you want long term data on bariatric surgery read up on the Swedish Obese Subjects study.
As you can see the most successful in terms of weight loss long term was the GBP technique.


Now how many of the T2 patients actually achieved remission



As you can see that the >70% that achieved early remission decayed to 35% @ 10 years.
Lower diagnostic level & duration of diabetes were the main determining factors for long term remission.

Taylor's studies only began in 2011 so the jury is still out.
He has had great headline success but as with the bariatric patients the relapse rate is very high.
While a gastric banding patient may be unable to over eat the low calorie diet patient needs have will power.

I will never understand why so many people want (as a first choice) to choose the hardest and most problematic ways to control/reverse their T2 Diabetes. Perhaps some of them have never heard of Low Carb and Eating to your Meter.

Calorie restriction, either by conventional crash diet or by surgery, require will power - which is finite and eventually runs out. Much easier to eat as much as your body needs/wants but cut down on sugar and those that turn into sugar i.e. all digestible starches. Use your BG meter to monitor if your body can handle the amount of sugars and carbs you are eating and adjust accordingly. No starvation and very little will power required for most people.

What most diets, including bariatric surgery, don’t address is food addiction. Modern food is created to be hyper palatable and non satiating.

The only way I address this for myself is to go very low carb.

My good friend had top of the range barbaric surgery. She can now only eat very small portions and initially lost a lot of weight. But now a lot of this weight has gone back on. I think because she was eating small portions many many times a day, at least 4 of which were "just 1 or 2 biscuits".
Since she has seen me low carbing she has changed what she eats and is losing weight again.
I think this confirms is not how much one eats, but what one eats (ie carbs).
A drastic weight loss, by whatever means, can help go cold turkey and stop cravings, but still requires some restrictions and some motivation, for ever

I find it incomprehensible to do anything other than stopping the intake of excess carbs - which I did from the moment of diagnosis, going back to the 50 gm a day maximum which I did when doing Atkins.
If the sink is overflowing - turn off the tap. It seems logical.
I have been challenged to do all sorts of things since to 'prove' that I have beaten type 2 - but after over 5 years I just sail on serenely seeing my shape changed, my energy restored, Covid was just a bad cold. I can from time to time go overboard - I sometimes eat mint chocolate ice cream - several times a year, but it seems OK to do that.
I eat twice a day - all I need. I drink coffee with cream, great.
Not at all difficult, very enjoyable tastes and flavours, never hungry.
I feel my body is looked after, not being punished for daring to go wrong, which I have often felt over the decades is the attitude of many HCPs.