Testing blood 2hrs after meals and carbs - confused.

Sid Bonkers said:

So there, that is exactly what I meant and if you want to count carbs or eat a certain amount of carbs a day that is entirely your prerogative, just as it is mine to eat my way and have my opinion. So posting sarcastic cartoons says more about the poster tan the method I use.

ps thanks for pm'ing the cartoon to me too Stephen, much appreciated.

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Well, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, I posted it because I saw it when I was digging out the other low-carb cartoons and I thought it illustrated your point perfectly (and showed that the cartoonist appreciated that carb counting isn't easy). It was supposed to be a friendlt gesture, which is why I PMd it to you. Sorry that you took offense to it, that certainly wasn't my intention.

Sid Bonkers said:

As we all know some of us can eat certain foods in portions that others cant so why stick to a set number of carbs, surly you are better off testing every type of carbohydrate in every combination of food that you regularly eat so that you know that maybe you can eat two slices of Burgen that doesnt mean that you can happily eat 24g of any other carb /food does it?

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I kind of agree with you Sid. In a perfect world we'd all combine carb counts with glycemic index to calculate the glycemic load. It's hardly practical, and beyond even my maths skills, to memorise glycemic indexes and multiply them on the fly. In the end, most of us do the same thing implicitly - I avoid high GI foods altogether (like spuds or pasta or bread), which kind of suits me because (apart from the spuds) I think that we shouldn't be eating high-gi foods in general.

The advantage of Sid's approach is that he gets to eat a relatively normal diet, but with small amounts of food. The advantage of my approach is that I get to eat as much food as I feel like, but I'm limited in my food selection. As I said elsewhere, there's more than one way to skin your diabetes.

I'm running a half-marathon tomorrow, during the course of which I'll burn around 2600kcal. It's a bit hard to see how a portion-control approach could be adapted to suit that, or my lifestyle and physique in general (I'm 6ft2, weigh 240lbs and run 20 miles+ a week, small amounts of food wouldn't fuel my lifestyle).

Bellx15 said:

xyzzy said:

Welcome Karen

At the beginning you may find you have no chance of getting anywhere near an 8 on your meter, I started out in the 20's. In that case the thing to try is to take a reading before you eat, note it down and then take another reading 2 hours later. Aim to get the 2 hour figure to be roughly the same of less than the before eating figure. If you do that then gradually day by day you should see your overall scores reduce.

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Great post, Steve (and the others).

I am just wanting some sort of reassurance on this point: If you manage your BG as you describe, day by day, is it really established that you will improve your overall BG levels over the longer term?

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Sorry Bellx I have only just spotted this. Didn't mean to ignore you!

Nothing is ever certain. With me I could make things more certain by getting some extra tests done. What I mean is I was diagnosed classic T2 so simplistically someone that has a level of insulin resistance combined with an assumed destruction of a proportion of beta cells because I had been running high levels for a while prior to diagnosis. That destruction therefore effects the amount of insulin I can actually produce. If that's the true and accurate story then I firmly believe by losing insulin resistance via weight loss so that the insulin I produce can work effectively and by then matching my carbohydrate intake so it doesn't overload my bodies reduced insulin production capability then I can maintain my levels at those of roughly a non diabetic person of a similar age to me. If I maintain them low enough I also firmly believe that I will at best completely stop or at worst only slowly loose more beta cells. Why should I continue to progress if my levels are averaging under the level required to start to kill them off.

However nothing is ever certain. I come from a family where diabetes is common. My eldest is T1, my next child is a normal weight 29 year but is prediabetic so also low carbs, my 43yr old nephew diagnosed T1.5 last year, my grandfather diagnosed T1.5 aged 48. I was diagnosed T2 as a mildly overweight 51 yr old. It is just possible that I have a very slow onset T1.5. If I do then I must assume my beta cells will gradually die off regardless of how much I low carb. My GP concurs and tells me I am doing brilliantly but because of my family history I should not rule out the possibility that next year or in 5 or even 10 years time my condition will progress despite low carbing. Theoretically I suppose I could ask for a c-peptide and GAD test (and did originally but got refused) but nowadays after gaining control and purely in my own case I think I would rather not know the outcome of a T1.5 / T2 determination as it could damage my resolve to keep on top of the disease. As I say that's just me and others may well have a different viewpoint.

On the getting levels down day by day. Again I can only relate my experience and I've uploaded some screen shots of my early BG daily diary to show you what I mean. It took me many weeks to get all the numbers under the magic 8. There have been new members of the forum who started with numbers as bad as my own but got there's down in a matter of a few days. The quickest I've seen was a lady member who started in the high teens and within 2 days was reporting numbers in the 4's and 5's but that is unusual. Normally I'd say people pretty quickly start to see some improvement and then take around a month to get all numbers under 8. The last number to get under control is normally the persons wake up FBG reading and even nearly a year after diagnosis that is still my highest reading of the day including most 2 hour post eating ones.

Oh I did it all using a very strict carb counting regime not portion control although each to his own. Given I HAD to cut my carbs right down to around 40 to 50g / day to get the BG level improvements then I had very large portions of other things, veg, meat, eggs, cheese, bacon, Indian takeaways, double cream as otherwise I would have ended up on a starvation diet that I couldn't have continued with. The regime I stuck to averaged me around a 2lb loss in weight per week. At the end of that initial 3 month period my cholesterol levels had totally normalised for the first time in years which to me proved that your cholesterol levels have very little to do with the amount of saturated fats you eat and far more with how much starchy or processed carbs you eat.

At diagnosis:



At One Month



At Three Months

hi folks just thought id add a few more worms to the can this may help types 1s only as im not fully aware of type 2 control just yet.

carbs can be counted and there effects can also be estimated but there are reasons for your readings all being different and its based on how the carb responds to your digestive system.

here goes: slow release carbs have a carb reading of say 75g in 100g of product but only 22g of which sugars indicating they break down very slowly and over several hours

fast acting have readings such as 75g of carbs in 100g and have 75g of which sugars indicating a very fast release of sugars meaning you will see a spike much sooner on your blood readings.

it is not just down to how many carbs youve consumed to what dosage to take you need to consider over what time frame the carbs will affect you and your sugars.

all to often people on here stick to long acting carbs and wonder why their sugars are consistently reading high after a meal even though they gave the right calculated dose for the meal this is because the insulin has a potency scale and active time frame. if the carb release is slow it will not coincide with the insulin release thus giving unexpected results when testing two hours after a meal.
cutting carbs out of your diet when diabetic is risky because your brain requires glucose to function this glucose is found in carbohydrates. expelling energy eats up this glucose by feeding it to your muscles. when your brain runs low on glucose you are having a hypo THIS is dangerous as we all know!
so cutting them out of your diet all together carries with it big risks.
if you find your eating lots of slow release carbs in your diet then spread your dose of insulin out after a meal for example many pumps allow you to have your dose injected over 15 mins or 30 mins to spread out how long the insulin is active for helping you combat the slow release of carbs. adminstring the insulin dose all at once will not only shorten how long its affective over but if its a heavy dose may also cause an insulin backlog and may disperse thrrough out your body at random times again somtimes causing hypos or even hypers.
lets say you have a mcdonalds value meal this is full of carbs but lots of different carbs also. some slow some very fast how do you tackle this situation well find your total value for the whole meal and take a 30% dose upfront then spread the further 70% over 15mins so lets say its 200g of carbs meaning a twenty unit shot so take 6 units now then take 1.8 units or two units every two mins for a further 15 mins after. this way the fast acting carbs have been dealt with by the big 6 unit dose upfront and the slow acting is dealt with over a longer period by staggering your dose out over 15mins.
this is all made alot easier with a pump as opposed to pens but can still be made possible with pens.

talk to your specialist before undertaking any of the suggestions above im not a doctor im a type 1 diabetic with 5years experience and two years on pump and eat anything i want and however much i want with no problems what so ever.
if another route is working for you why change it this is mearly suggestions to help anyone looking for alternatives?

aeroplay said:

cutting carbs out of your diet when diabetic is risky because your brain requires glucose to function this glucose is found in carbohydrates. expelling energy eats up this glucose by feeding it to your muscles. when your brain runs low on glucose you are having a hypo THIS is dangerous as we all know!
so cutting them out of your diet all together carries with it big risks.

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So how come I'm not dead then or constantly in a diabetic coma? Your brain does needs around 150g of glucose a day as you suggest but it can get that glucose by other methods other than just ingesting carbohydrate for example from ketogenisis. For the last 10 months on 99% of days I have never eaten more than around 60g of carbs. Others on this forum eat far less carbs than me with some averaging 20g a day and have done for years and yet they too seem to be able to type very coherent posts to this forum and function perfectly ok.

I run my own Information Technology company where I have to problem solve difficult and complex logical problems everyday. Don't you think my client base and therefore my bank balance would be telling me something was wrong if my brain really did need to get that glucose from carbohydrates? Look I am perfectly capable of typing this to you, this as well, and this, and this too (note my brain functioned fine to recognise I should use "too" as in "also" rather than "to" as in "towards"). Surely after this time I should be unconscious most of the day if you are correct? I have never once experienced any hypo symptoms but there again I control my T2 just using the low carb diet that you suggest is so dangerous without any strong meds or insulin. My last A1c was 4.9%. Before you say it yes I am still diabetic I am not cured and never will be. If I eat any reasonable amount of high carb foods my levels go through the roof.

I also exercise with a 2 mile walk each day. One of the regular posters who only does around 20g carbs per day is running a half marathon today how do you explain all of this?

Looking forward to your reply.

aeroplay said:

cutting carbs out of your diet when diabetic is risky because your brain requires glucose to function this glucose is found in carbohydrates. expelling energy eats up this glucose by feeding it to your muscles. when your brain runs low on glucose you are having a hypo THIS is dangerous as we all know!
so cutting them out of your diet all together carries with it big risks.

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This is utterly, utterly wrong.

Your metabolism can fuel your brain from a mixture of ketones, and glucose made from protein and fat (by a process called gluconeogenesis). Although it's not practical you could live and thrive on a zero carb diet. I eat less than 25g a day.

A T2 on diet and/or metformin you are much less likely to suffer a hypo on a very low carbohydrate diet, as ketosis is your metabolism's defence against hypoglycemia. When in ketosis your brain requires much less glucose (about 25g a day, or a teaspoon full, all of which can easily be generated from protein and fat).

Please don't start spouting things that you just made up as if they are facts.

Here would be a good place to start your reeducation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ ... nesis.html
http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/201 ... rk-sisson/

borofergie said:

Well, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, I posted it because I saw it when I was digging out the other low-carb cartoons and I thought it illustrated your point perfectly (and showed that the cartoonist appreciated that carb counting isn't easy). It was supposed to be a friendlt gesture, which is why I PMd it to you. Sorry that you took offense to it, that certainly wasn't my intention.

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| offer my unreserved apologies Stephen with absolutely zero irony, I'm sorry

i appologise for clearly offending you all

as a type 1 diabetic i do not understand at present how to associate an appropriate insulin doasge to protein and fat intake i am only aware of how to deal with carbs. i appologise for suggesting that carbs are the only way forward as you have clearly identified other means of controlling your diabetes without carbs playing a vital role in your diet.

i appologise for my lack of understanding and withdraw my statement about needing carbs i am sorry for my naivety.
i shant post again clearly im not welcome here.

Don't go Aeroplay! This forum is the home of lively debate - people are challenging and have strong beliefs but you have just as much right to push back and challenge them back, as they have in challenging you.

Stay, its really a great place, you just touched the 'carb' nerve, but you are just as entitled to your oppinion as everyone else.

Definitely!

Don't go just because other members seem a bit excitable to you. There are 40,000+ members here, and I am sure most of them value your point of view.

aeroplay said:

i appologise for my lack of understanding and withdraw my statement about needing carbs i am sorry for my naivety.
i shant post again clearly im not welcome here.

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Yeah, don't go. I get a bit excitable about the whole low-carb thing. I'm a bad man. Sorry.

Im am still sorry for my lack of understanding and for making naive comments like that but thankyou for pointing me to information regarding how alternative sugar sources can be obtained from proteins and fat, it has enlightend me. Although i do have new questions but i believe they should be asked in a different thread as they are completely off topic once again i am sorry for touching the carb nerve i am new here. :?

I'm new too - we are all in this together, so please don't feel apologetic. It's a major learning curve for me, I can tell you!

Glad you stayed Aeroplay, ask your questions on a new thread, we'll be happy to help!!

aeroplay said:

i appologise for my lack of understanding and withdraw my statement about needing carbs i am sorry for my naivety.
i shant post again clearly im not welcome here.

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please don't go... the vast majority of your post was sensible advice...

aeroplay said:

i appologise for clearly offending you all

as a type 1 diabetic i do not understand at present how to associate an appropriate insulin doasge to protein and fat intake i am only aware of how to deal with carbs. i appologise for suggesting that carbs are the only way forward as you have clearly identified other means of controlling your diabetes without carbs playing a vital role in your diet.

i appologise for my lack of understanding and withdraw my statement about needing carbs i am sorry for my naivety.
i shant post again clearly im not welcome here.

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There is no need to leave, when a lot of us joined, we knew little, or some of us believed misinformation. It's the way of the world. The thing is, you have accepted you made an error, so just forget it and move on. I am a firm believer in the adage "today's news tomorrows chip paper" and folks here don't hold grudges.

Welcome to the forum!

Apologies aeroplay. I had failed to spot that you were a new member so I fully accept my post was far too strong. Obviously you've seen what you said hit a raw nerve with me and the others. It s a commonly believed fallacy that just because your brain needs carbs that you have to get those carbs by eating carbohydrate. Many of us T2's and a significant number of T1's on the forum follow low carbohydrate diets of various levels. T2's and T1's do low carbohydrate regimes for different reasons. T2's mainly do it simply as a way of obtaining control of blood sugar levels i.e they essentially match their insulin production / insulin resistance capability to an amount of grams of carbs they can tolerate to maintain safe levels. T1's do low carb for different reasons such as reducing the amount of insulin they need and reducing the chances of hypos etc. Again apologies and welcome.

Is the domestic over now everybody.

I see apologies went to the newbie who found themselves in the middle of it but nothing for the OP who is probably still running for cover.

It's just a personal view but I think that when a newbie appears saying words like confused we should hit them with shorter paragraphs, fewer details and occasionally direct comments to them rather than each other.