The Daily Mail strikes again with Atkins Diet

Does anyone have a link to the study?

I liked this comment below the article in particular; "Dr Atkins didn't die of a heart attack in 2002 but of head trauma after a fall in 2003 - do your basic research properly and stop peddling myths."

Also, I like how the statement under the picture of the breakfast says "Full English? A diet high in protein but low in carbohydrates can play havoc with cholesterol levels, say scientists." Er, except they didn't as reported in the rest of the article, but you know 'facts' who needs 'em eh? Those craaaaazzzzzy Atkins followers aren't going to stop me eating a good old British pie..!

Dillinger

Women on the Atkins diet could be in danger of heart attacks and strokes later in life, claim researchers.

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Nah...we're all going to be on statins as soon as we hit 50. They'll sort it all out...... :lol:

Ju

Here is the article.

http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e4026

For some reason this thread is on twice, and I've just posted on the other one!

Could you merge them, please, Mods?

Viv 8)

catherinecherub said:

Here is the article.

http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e4026

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Cheers.

Yet again!! :evil:
Robert Atkins died of his head injuries after a while on life support.
As far as I've ever been able to work out, he never had a heart attack after the accident. His heart wasn't perfect, but he was still working full time at over 70!
Where do people get this stuff?
Last week, i had someone tell me that richard Bernstein had been sued in a canadian court and had to pay out, for causing someone's death by his diet. That also DID NOT happen [I did a lot if checking. If he had how would he have kept his License?]
Hana

RoyG wrote
If 10,000 women followed the Atkins diet, an extra five would be likely to suffer a stroke or heart attack compared to another 10,000 women eating normally.

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In other words, for every 2,000 Atkins dieters one (i.e. you or me [although I'm NOT a woman, let's just make that clear]) would be likely to suffer a stroke or heart attack. If that's enough for you to stop or avoid, I've got more statistics like that :lol:
Conveniently, no one mentions the possible other consequences of a 'normal' diet.

Geoff (campaigning against medical lies, medical **** lies, and medical statistics.)

This info re Atkins death is freely available http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/di ... dated.html Of interest is the copy of his death certificate.
But then there are plenty who say differently so take your pick as to which you want to believe

Dillinger said:

Does anyone have a link to the study?

I liked this comment below the article in particular; "Dr Atkins didn't die of a heart attack in 2002 but of head trauma after a fall in 2003 - do your basic research properly and stop peddling myths."

Also, I like how the statement under the picture of the breakfast says "Full English? A diet high in protein but low in carbohydrates can play havoc with cholesterol levels, say scientists." Er, except they didn't as reported in the rest of the article, but you know 'facts' who needs 'em eh? Those craaaaazzzzzy Atkins followers aren't going to stop me eating a good old British pie..!

Dillinger

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I would like to see the study as well...

As to Atkin's death..

It's not surprising that the media have never let this rest, as his family refused the request from the coronary office to carry out a full post-mortem! So could only do a visual autopsy which would rule out cause of death being 'foal play'!

It is know that at the time of his fall, he also suffered a heart attack, but it hasn't been established whether the heart attack happened before the fall, causing it or was caused by the shock of the fall! All the visual autopsy done, was say yes his injuries sustained were consistent with a fall and that medical treatment given by the hospital was correct etc...

So followers and media will have their own explanation for some aspects of the visual autopsy...

Such as his weight, followers explain his excess weight as 'bloating' from his stay in hospital prior to his death!

If it was bloating which is water retention, water retention can be caused by the heart being in failure, it has to be remembered that this condition doesn't kill straight away, it is possible to treat it prevent the fluid building up in the body etc.... So this condition could have existed before his fall...

The media, just say excess weight full stop..

Followers will say, the fall caused his heart attack!

Media will say that the heart attack caused the fall..

In truth, a full post-mortem would have provided a lot of these answers... As if he had a CVD, clogged arteries or any underlying medical condition that played a part in his death!

But it is known that Atkins did receive treatment for a heart condition from a family friend! Which adds more fuel to the media's theories!

So all we can is surmise over the why's and why nots, and make our own minds what who we believe!

But going back again to the study, yes I want to have a look at it, so I can decide for myself if it was a fair study or not, and what sort of bias was used!

The study is already on the thread Jopar.

catherinecherub said:

Here is the article.

http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e4026

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I can't really see that there is anythibng in in to worry about for most of us. They are not doing a study on the effects of a lower or reduced carb diet on diabetics. If they did they would need to balance the risks of high blood sugars contributing to cardiovascular events against the risks of lowering the proportions of carbs to protein.

It is not the first study to mention the possible dangers associated with an increased proportion of red meat in the diet and it does say that the sourse of the increased protein ie vegetable rather than animal could mean that there is no difference. in outcome.

I found it interesting that it made mention of the different methods of production in different countries as a possibly significant factor..

The real problem as Dillinger pointed out , is the danger that the headlines will be seized upon by the Food Police .

I eat very little in general. I would not have believed that the amount of carbs i ate could adversely affect anyone. I eat no red mat.The only thng that lowered my blood glucose was reducing sarch carbs. I am not fanatical I eat them now and then.

I never discuss diet with anyone because my weight is never an issue, I am not alarmed by this report.

When a report is published specifically about diabetics following such a diet and any increased risk against the existing risk
of heart disease and stroke then I might think it applicable to me.

In the meantime I see no reason to be concerned for any of my fellow members.

Thanks for the link catherinecherub. The report is interesting. It is not a study on the Atkins diet and is more concerned with lowcarbing for weight loss.
As always moderation in all things and a variety of sources appears to be the message. I can't see it would harm anyone to get some of their increased protein from non-animal sources and he report agrees.

Very interesting. Without reading the whole thing I thought the important statements were contained in the introduction (my underline).

Many dietary regimens have been proposed as conducive to weight control, invoking various mechanisms including increased satiety. The most popular among these diets emphasise reduction of carbohydrate intake, thereby encouraging high protein intake as high fat diets are generally avoided in most Western societies. Low carbohydrate-high protein diets may have short term effects on weight control but concerns have also been expressed, notably with respect to cardiovascular outcomes. Although low carbohydrate-high protein diets may be nutritionally acceptable if the protein is mainly of plant origin and the reduction of carbohydrates applies mainly to simple and refined ones, the general public do not always recognise and act on these qualifications.

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In my opinion that can be restated as people have been indoctrinated to avoid fat at all costs and therefore when they choose a low carb diet they make it high protein instead of high fat. To me this is really no different from the study the other week that said low carb high fat regime raised cholesterol but when you analysed the data it really showed that a high carb high fat raised cholesterol.

If the public were re-educated to believe a diet that contained reasonable amounts of fat were ok the study would not be as important. Re-educated just means returning to the kind of diet we all were eating prior to the rapid increases in consumption of refined carbohydrates and low fat products over the last 40 years or so.

Can anyone tell me the difference between protein found in veg and protein found in meat? Are there different kinds of protein like there are different kinds of fats?

Keep things in moderation :thumbup:

Here you are xyzzy,

The difference between animal and plant protein.

http://www.differencebetween.net/scienc ... l-protein/

STOP PRESS: We couldn't demonstrate that increased fat intake increases CVD, so now we'll pretend that protein was really the culprit all along. Stinks a bit of data mining don't you think?

Relative risks of 1.04 to 1.07? How about a graph of actual risk against protein and carbohydrate consumption?

If you're eating too much protein then you're not doing low-carb properly. Careful examination of the donut charts in the "share your diet" thread will show that it's mainly the lipid-phobic low-carbers (and medium-carbers) who bulk their diet with protein in order to avoid fat. Some getting as high as 25 to 30%, when the average protein intake across the world is only 15 to 16%.

If you eat more than about 18% protein on a ketosis-diet the excess glucose it creates knocks you out of ketosis, defeating the purpose.

This appears to be nothing more than a headline grabbing article designed to instil fear into those of us who follow Atkins. Well, I shall carry on regardless!! If I were to listen to all the food related scares, I would either have been dead shortly after weaning or not eating and drinking anything and starving!

catherinecherub said:

Here you are xyzzy,

The difference between animal and plant protein.

http://www.differencebetween.net/scienc ... l-protein/

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Plant proteins are incomplete, you need to eat a wide variety of plant proteins to get a full set of amino-acids that you need to build and repair muscles.

Animal proteins are complete, almost any portion of meat or eggs will give you the full set.

This is not surprising, the best way of making muscle, is by eating muscle.

Vegetarians struggle to get enough good quality protein, which is probably why they all look so skinny and unhealthy.

borofergie said:

Plant proteins are incomplete, you need to eat a wide variety of plant proteins to get a full set of amino-acids that you need to build and repair muscles.

Animal proteins are complete, almost any portion of meat or eggs will give you the full set.

This is not surprising, the best way of making muscle, is by eating muscle.

Vegetarians struggle to get enough good quality protein, which is probably why they all look so skinny and unhealthy.

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The two paragraphs before say this:


''Fruit-eaters, vegetable-eaters and vegetarians alike all share the same concern, ‘can I get the same proteins my body needs without eating meat products?’ Well, the answer is a big YES! Proteins too can be harnessed from many plant sources. Even if you’re a vegetarian, you can have alternative protein sources from plant products. The trick is, plant proteins are said to contain almost the same protein value like the ones coming from animals. More so, plants are regarded as excellent sources of a plethora of vitamins, minerals, fibers and antioxidants that no animal source can match.

In general, plant proteins have no cholesterol and fat (saturated fats) as opposed to animal sources. That’s why if you are going to compare a person who is taking his proteins from plants to the one who consumes proteins from animal sources; you would expect the latter to easily have diseases related to the heart and blood pressure. Plant proteins also have more Beta-carotene, dietary fiber, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, folate, Iron, Magnesium and Calcium.''


A good balance between the two would be preferable

Problem Xyzzy, is your synopsis is that you’ll using data that doesn’t exist!
Data on fat consumption wasn’t considered, so no data concerning consumption was collected or it used in any of the calculations…

You’ve made an assumption that participates all followed a low fat dietary advice, so only either reduced and/or increased their protein or carb content of their diet! Bit like me making an assumption that if somebody has increased their protein intake, and lowered their carb intake, they also increased their fat intake in compliance to the normal method of VLC diets! And coming to a conclusion that Atkins style diets are unhealthy long term!

Which I am sure that you would be the first to inform me that I couldn’t make such assumptions!
Reading the information seems to suggest that a balance between various aspects of our food groups is important to long term health… Would have been interesting to see if adding in fat consumption if and what sort of impact it made on the outcome!

If you look at Atkins and Bernstein’s diets, very similar but with slight differences in them, both restrict complex carbs, subtle differences here though, as Atkins uses two levels, an induction amount of 30g’s, then this increases whereas Bernstein sticks to 30g’s throughout, other differences between their diets, is Atkins gives free reign on the actually amount of protein consumed… Again Bernstein actually restricts the amount of protein, in fact he restricts total consumption of all the main food sources…

A side note here, Atkins diet was revamped by it new company owners, and complex carbs after induction was increased and encouragement of eating this in grains source!

Slot these two diets into this study, could it be said that Bernstein does recognise a need to have balance between the food groups, and Atkins didn’t… Could it suggest that the combination of high Fat/High Proteins is as derogatory to our long term health as the combination of High Fats/High carbs foods!