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The low-carb cause
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Synonym
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Hello again Ally, 
Frankly I don’t think it is possible to ‘label’ what people are doing with any degree of certainty and, as for me, I am just doing my own thing and watching the meter. As I am having difficulty keeping my BG levels down I am not eating starchy carbs at all so obviously my carbs are very much reduced but I do eat quite a bit of fruit and veg. I am unable to do much in the way of exercise and some days am not able to do much at all so getting rid of the starchy carbs has been key for me and I don’t miss them too much and feel better on my new way of eating. 8)
I realised that my calorie content was low so have already upped my fats, which has helped steady my rapidly dropping weight, so it will be interesting to see what numbers I get at the next test. For example the sauce for my cauliflower cheese today was Philadelphia Cream cheese slackened off with cream and mustard and topped with grated cheese which was really scrummy and worked well; I don’t do that very often so hopefully once in a while won’t be a problem. I do eat some cheese most days now and usually have yoghurt with fruit, nuts and seeds for breakfast. I don’t think I am far out with what I am doing anyway and will plod on as I am at the moment.
Your explanation was much better than any I was given and the DN at diagnosis was hopeless - and yes I am afraid it was the usual "eat starchy carbs". The hospital dietician just rubber stamped what I am doing and was very supportive but it is better to have it straight from "a horse's mouth" if you don't mind my saying so! :lol: I know quite a bit about nutrition but haven't had diabetes before so, although one may think that you have it right, if someone just says 'fine' it doesn't really mean much. :roll:
Frankly I don’t think it is possible to ‘label’ what people are doing with any degree of certainty and, as for me, I am just doing my own thing and watching the meter. As I am having difficulty keeping my BG levels down I am not eating starchy carbs at all so obviously my carbs are very much reduced but I do eat quite a bit of fruit and veg. I am unable to do much in the way of exercise and some days am not able to do much at all so getting rid of the starchy carbs has been key for me and I don’t miss them too much and feel better on my new way of eating. 8)
I realised that my calorie content was low so have already upped my fats, which has helped steady my rapidly dropping weight, so it will be interesting to see what numbers I get at the next test. For example the sauce for my cauliflower cheese today was Philadelphia Cream cheese slackened off with cream and mustard and topped with grated cheese which was really scrummy and worked well; I don’t do that very often so hopefully once in a while won’t be a problem. I do eat some cheese most days now and usually have yoghurt with fruit, nuts and seeds for breakfast. I don’t think I am far out with what I am doing anyway and will plod on as I am at the moment.
Your explanation was much better than any I was given and the DN at diagnosis was hopeless - and yes I am afraid it was the usual "eat starchy carbs". The hospital dietician just rubber stamped what I am doing and was very supportive but it is better to have it straight from "a horse's mouth" if you don't mind my saying so! :lol: I know quite a bit about nutrition but haven't had diabetes before so, although one may think that you have it right, if someone just says 'fine' it doesn't really mean much. :roll:
jopar
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markd
You will actally find a link to it in the sticky thread forum... Just look for lowcarbxx Sadly you won't find very much info/advice about low carbing, but plenty of self appraisal, and a lot of potshots and allocations at precievedr non-believers, must admit it does also contains a lot of entertainment value :lol:
Synonym
Nah, you'll no failure, you tried it with out medication it just didn't pan out, so you've re-thought your battle plan thats all... What a lot of people do forget is as we travel through time, our bodies change commononly known as the aging process our lifestyles changes same as our living environments, just think when I became diabetic I was in my early 20's a young mum, running after little ones, my parents were still alive and active.. In just over 20 years since, yep kids grown up,I've divoreced and remarried, I lost my mum 8 years ago, and dad sadly passed away in January, and my body has physical aged with each stage I've had to change tactics, insulins etc to maintain control.. If I went back to the insulin and regime that I was using 20 years ago, it wouldn't work as I am a different person now..
Does this mean I failed nope, I've just managed my diabetes and changed tactics as required to maintain my control..
Or has my husband says, you adapt and over-come
You will actally find a link to it in the sticky thread forum... Just look for lowcarbxx Sadly you won't find very much info/advice about low carbing, but plenty of self appraisal, and a lot of potshots and allocations at precievedr non-believers, must admit it does also contains a lot of entertainment value :lol:
Synonym
Nah, you'll no failure, you tried it with out medication it just didn't pan out, so you've re-thought your battle plan thats all... What a lot of people do forget is as we travel through time, our bodies change commononly known as the aging process our lifestyles changes same as our living environments, just think when I became diabetic I was in my early 20's a young mum, running after little ones, my parents were still alive and active.. In just over 20 years since, yep kids grown up,I've divoreced and remarried, I lost my mum 8 years ago, and dad sadly passed away in January, and my body has physical aged with each stage I've had to change tactics, insulins etc to maintain control.. If I went back to the insulin and regime that I was using 20 years ago, it wouldn't work as I am a different person now..
Does this mean I failed nope, I've just managed my diabetes and changed tactics as required to maintain my control..
Or has my husband says, you adapt and over-come
graham64
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ally5555 said:
30-40g carbs per meal :shock: Ally you must be joking, no way could I sustain that and remain on diet exercise and medication free to keep my BG in check low GI or not.
This is Low Carb as defined by Fergus and Dr Katharine
Low carb (ketogenic) 0-50g carbohydrate per day
Typical low carb 50-90g
Liberal low carb 90-130g
Moderate carbs 130-170g
High carb 170g plus a day
Graham
Jen&Khaleb
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Gee, my 3 yr old is nearly in the Moderate category.
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graham64 said:
Forgive me Graham - For those of us who don't know - who are Fergus and Dr Katherine and what qualifies them to define these numbers and how did they reach this conclusion? - not being rude or antagonistic - would just like to know
Synonym
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graham64 said:
Graham, as I said, I can't eat that many carbs as my BG levels soar through the roof so am continuing to eat to my meter. It was interesting to read a full explanation of the dieticians' view of low carb as I was never given anything other than "eat plenty of starchy carbohdrate" from the DN and the hospital dietician agreed to all I said about my cutting down the carbs which was very kind but not instructive. :roll:
My meter will continue to be my best friend! 8)
Graham - what I tried to show there was what all this nonsense about high carb/low fat stuff is all about. It is a myth that so called "healthy eating" is low in fat when clearly it is not. I have tried to expalin waht this is all about as maybe some people have not understood it! I have analysed alot of low carbers diets and they are lower in fat than the normal! An average man needs around 90 g / day.
People on here seem to be able to eat more carbs than you and that cannot be explained. I find this in practice but I work for 2 very go ahead GP practices who screen for diabetes - we pick them up at a stage when they are asymptomic so I guess that can make a difference to the outcome. This is something i would like to investigate further!
Clearly for non diabetics then this model works as the important thing is to remove the junk and eat real food. Maybe if people had eaten like this before they gained weight then health problems would not have arisen.
There is no clear definition of low carb diets - that table is an opinion . If you listen to bernsteins recent pod cast on the other forum! he states his regime is very low carb.
I will respond to you post on ketogenic diets later as you do not have the right facts Graham - it is not the atkins diet!
People on here seem to be able to eat more carbs than you and that cannot be explained. I find this in practice but I work for 2 very go ahead GP practices who screen for diabetes - we pick them up at a stage when they are asymptomic so I guess that can make a difference to the outcome. This is something i would like to investigate further!
Clearly for non diabetics then this model works as the important thing is to remove the junk and eat real food. Maybe if people had eaten like this before they gained weight then health problems would not have arisen.
There is no clear definition of low carb diets - that table is an opinion . If you listen to bernsteins recent pod cast on the other forum! he states his regime is very low carb.
I will respond to you post on ketogenic diets later as you do not have the right facts Graham - it is not the atkins diet!
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Following on from what I had written earlier when a started this subject, there is another point that I would like to make regarding the 'deluded few' low-carbers (again not all) who feel it necessary to preach the morale high ground about what we should eat, and how little meds we should use, if any.
They always, always feel that they need to justify this by stating their latest hba1c are, admittedly they are often good and in the 5's and lower 6's, but what they forget that this may be good control to them as they previously had higher results before following a LC diet, but there are those that do not low-carb, following diets of their own choosing and obtain good hba1c's also. The difference being that, these people that achieve successful results do not feel the need to shout about it nor state it at every opportunity. This I believe is where these low-carb evangelists lose their argument.
Sometimes in life, the more someone shouts and tries to sound convincing about a subject or believe, the less convincing they become, nobody appreciates or wants to listen to the same old droll time and time again.
Nigel
Nigel
They always, always feel that they need to justify this by stating their latest hba1c are, admittedly they are often good and in the 5's and lower 6's, but what they forget that this may be good control to them as they previously had higher results before following a LC diet, but there are those that do not low-carb, following diets of their own choosing and obtain good hba1c's also. The difference being that, these people that achieve successful results do not feel the need to shout about it nor state it at every opportunity. This I believe is where these low-carb evangelists lose their argument.
Sometimes in life, the more someone shouts and tries to sound convincing about a subject or believe, the less convincing they become, nobody appreciates or wants to listen to the same old droll time and time again.
Nigel
Nigel
jopar
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The repetitiveness of their justifications is bad enough, but one can put it down to arrogance more than anything, but what I find to be more heinous is the lengths that they will go to aggressively insult, attack and to try to discredit those who they to believe are anti-low carbers...
The posting on other forums, suggesting or criticising members of this forum who they perceive to be anti-low carbers, for spelling mistakes, lack of discipline, ignorant, don’t understand carbs... They fat because they inject high amounts of insulin, but if you lucky like me are thin and/or use small doses then again you thin because you are abusing your insulin dose and the lowest of the low actually accusing members on here of being killers, and many more allocations on several other sites... If you dare eat carbs and take medication, then you classed as being a me, me, me, person...
Perhaps they think that they not only campaigning for a cause, but being vigilantes ridding the world of those with common sense, who believe in moderation, and others freedom to choose..
But the reality is, they come across as not only very embittered characters but also jealous of those they perceive have succeeded where they have failed..
Those of us, that have discipline, have a great understanding and knowledge of carbs, are able to use both knowledge and discipline to maintain our diabetic control, who either lost or losing their excess weight or never put the weight on in the first place, we live along side our diabetes a normal life, not living being controlled by diabetes! (But saying that I am sure that some what to make diabetes to be a real issue something that effects everything they do in their life, that everybody got to pity them and their plight..)
All said and done, in reality all these types do, is turn more people away from their cause, as well who really wants to end up embittered and unhappy with life...
If I've got anything to say to a member of this forum, I do it only in this forum and nowhere else.. Perhaps that because I'm not on any sort of vigilante quest!
The posting on other forums, suggesting or criticising members of this forum who they perceive to be anti-low carbers, for spelling mistakes, lack of discipline, ignorant, don’t understand carbs... They fat because they inject high amounts of insulin, but if you lucky like me are thin and/or use small doses then again you thin because you are abusing your insulin dose and the lowest of the low actually accusing members on here of being killers, and many more allocations on several other sites... If you dare eat carbs and take medication, then you classed as being a me, me, me, person...
Perhaps they think that they not only campaigning for a cause, but being vigilantes ridding the world of those with common sense, who believe in moderation, and others freedom to choose..
But the reality is, they come across as not only very embittered characters but also jealous of those they perceive have succeeded where they have failed..
Those of us, that have discipline, have a great understanding and knowledge of carbs, are able to use both knowledge and discipline to maintain our diabetic control, who either lost or losing their excess weight or never put the weight on in the first place, we live along side our diabetes a normal life, not living being controlled by diabetes! (But saying that I am sure that some what to make diabetes to be a real issue something that effects everything they do in their life, that everybody got to pity them and their plight..)
All said and done, in reality all these types do, is turn more people away from their cause, as well who really wants to end up embittered and unhappy with life...
If I've got anything to say to a member of this forum, I do it only in this forum and nowhere else.. Perhaps that because I'm not on any sort of vigilante quest!
hanadr
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I eat very few carbs myself. Never tell anyone they are bad for eating them, even if I often suggest they could reduce theirs.I believe in using minimum medication and keeping LOW numbers.Remember the only difference between a medicine and a poison is the dose. In addition I am never rude and usually gently suggest to others that they shouldn't be rude either. My reported BG numbers are 100% truthful. So why then do I get such vitriol on THIS forum? (just to be catty, is someone out to get me off, because they won't!)
Hana
Hana
Debloubed
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hanadr said:
you say things like this Hana, on a forum where many, many members use a variety of medication?? and you wonder why people will question you?! I actually read your comments on the low carb section of this forum with interest, but why keep banging on about medication being such a bad thing and then complaining when people criticise you for it?!
Take a step back and think.
jopar
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Neither am I rude, I do include rudeness to include other forums as well as this one, as you know yes I post in other places, but I do not mention or infer to any member here or any another forum...
Hanna if you read what is posted, you would find that those of us who you believe to be anti-low carbers are actually promoting a moderation of carb intake, how different carbs can react in the body, suggestions one can use, to counter react this reaction, perhaps use of medication etc... But we maintain the individual’s right to choice, we do not insist that our instructions are the only way to go and they must follow if they don’t want their feet to drop off...
It may well be that you could consider the difference between medication and poison be the dose, but you aren’t not qualified to depict where this mark lays for any individual in fact neither am I...
Where did ‘my reported BG’s numbers are 100% honest’ come from, no-one has debated or even suggested that, are you trying to tell us, that your friends aren't quite so honest with their achievements? Seems so you’ve mentioned it mine are too, I’m not into preaching what I don’t practice... Well there you are I’ve brought up another little niggle of mine any way...
The need to constantly bang on how easy a extreme low carb diet is, how exciting etc, I’m purer than thou I’m so perfect.. Then up pops a post mentioning that this isn’t so, this coincides with another niggle of mine this one is quite a major one indeed..
When people such as yourself, suggest that you have superior knowledge and/or qualifications than somebody else.. Sadly Hana you claim to have superior knowledge than a diabetic HCP, and that you know all about T1 diabetes, but comments on another forum and on this suggest otherwise, I have seen you post some very dangerous information concerning T1 diabetes indeed and yes if I see any member posting dangerous information I will point it out...
If this makes you feel victimised then it’s not intended to, my intention is to safeguard the unwary who may believe you know what you’ll talking about and take your information as gospel with disastrous consequences...
As to trying to chase you/anyone off the forum, nope that’s not me I can name a few past and present members who do chase those of who they deem not to be singing of their chosen hymn sheet though and to what lengths they will go to in the attempt of doing so, sadly there wouldn’t be a normal diabetic in this list of names... Wonder why?
Hanna if you read what is posted, you would find that those of us who you believe to be anti-low carbers are actually promoting a moderation of carb intake, how different carbs can react in the body, suggestions one can use, to counter react this reaction, perhaps use of medication etc... But we maintain the individual’s right to choice, we do not insist that our instructions are the only way to go and they must follow if they don’t want their feet to drop off...
It may well be that you could consider the difference between medication and poison be the dose, but you aren’t not qualified to depict where this mark lays for any individual in fact neither am I...
Where did ‘my reported BG’s numbers are 100% honest’ come from, no-one has debated or even suggested that, are you trying to tell us, that your friends aren't quite so honest with their achievements? Seems so you’ve mentioned it mine are too, I’m not into preaching what I don’t practice... Well there you are I’ve brought up another little niggle of mine any way...
The need to constantly bang on how easy a extreme low carb diet is, how exciting etc, I’m purer than thou I’m so perfect.. Then up pops a post mentioning that this isn’t so, this coincides with another niggle of mine this one is quite a major one indeed..
When people such as yourself, suggest that you have superior knowledge and/or qualifications than somebody else.. Sadly Hana you claim to have superior knowledge than a diabetic HCP, and that you know all about T1 diabetes, but comments on another forum and on this suggest otherwise, I have seen you post some very dangerous information concerning T1 diabetes indeed and yes if I see any member posting dangerous information I will point it out...
If this makes you feel victimised then it’s not intended to, my intention is to safeguard the unwary who may believe you know what you’ll talking about and take your information as gospel with disastrous consequences...
As to trying to chase you/anyone off the forum, nope that’s not me I can name a few past and present members who do chase those of who they deem not to be singing of their chosen hymn sheet though and to what lengths they will go to in the attempt of doing so, sadly there wouldn’t be a normal diabetic in this list of names... Wonder why?
jopar
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Janabelle
So for a persons that eats a normal 'healthy balanced' diet who has knowledge about carbs how the work etc etc and self-discipline to achieve good diabetic control, is smug and offensive but a extreme low carber who, who puts here achievement into their signuture isn't be smug and offensive?
For the same reasons above, because I made a comment based on personal opinion stupid and insulting, where as a extreme low carbing, can be two faced, with attempting to be a nice person on this forum, but at the same time post threads that directly criticise those she dispeases, and decided that a indvidual who needs to undertake a major operation as not only lacking in self discipline, but being selfish as well or a indivdiual who finds themselve needing to resort to insulin of u500 as being some form of wasteful sponger lacking self discipline..
Do you think it's ok, to suggest that I'm a sponger draining the NHS, because well if I would only follow what she preaches then I could reduce my insulin intake... I'm surprise she hasn't done what one of the low carbers who got banned from this forum take all the way if I follow them I could stop having to inject insulin wow..
Do I enjoy confrontation, no I don't as I much prefer spending my time helping others with information that they can decide if it might help them...
If the persons got a problem with me and what I say, then they should actually post this on this forum, where I can fairly address there comments... I don't go spreading roumour or make allocations where those I am accusing do not have a right to address, I also perfer to keep it where all can see..
It's called being polite I think..
So for a persons that eats a normal 'healthy balanced' diet who has knowledge about carbs how the work etc etc and self-discipline to achieve good diabetic control, is smug and offensive but a extreme low carber who, who puts here achievement into their signuture isn't be smug and offensive?
For the same reasons above, because I made a comment based on personal opinion stupid and insulting, where as a extreme low carbing, can be two faced, with attempting to be a nice person on this forum, but at the same time post threads that directly criticise those she dispeases, and decided that a indvidual who needs to undertake a major operation as not only lacking in self discipline, but being selfish as well or a indivdiual who finds themselve needing to resort to insulin of u500 as being some form of wasteful sponger lacking self discipline..
Do you think it's ok, to suggest that I'm a sponger draining the NHS, because well if I would only follow what she preaches then I could reduce my insulin intake... I'm surprise she hasn't done what one of the low carbers who got banned from this forum take all the way if I follow them I could stop having to inject insulin wow..
Do I enjoy confrontation, no I don't as I much prefer spending my time helping others with information that they can decide if it might help them...
If the persons got a problem with me and what I say, then they should actually post this on this forum, where I can fairly address there comments... I don't go spreading roumour or make allocations where those I am accusing do not have a right to address, I also perfer to keep it where all can see..
It's called being polite I think..
I Must sy something here. I think it's so sad that a great forum is being torn apart by infighting when with a common cause we should be working together to help those who need help . why do we need to believe that ours is the only path?. Can't we just tell members our experiences and let them decide?. I am only human and must say like other have looked on the "other" forum. Hana you say you are not rude to other members, but can you not see how hurtful this posting is to someone who fights against obesity every day?
Quote:
I've been getting steamed up by 2 topics lately.
1 those people who feel it's too much of an imposition to expect a dietary change as a result of becoming diabetic and who thus think that medication is the answer.
2 Those people who MUST have stomach surgery, because they need a physical brake to their eating.
Of course it's not fair if you have to do things which are hard, when not everyone has to.
It's not fair, Ican't afford a big house with a big garden and a gardener to go with, when other people can.
It's also not fair I have T2 and my husband T1 and we have to cope with it all.
It wasn't fair that I was childless and wanted a baby and a member of my immediate family had 2 unplanned and unwanted children.( Now that DID hurt)
Life is full of unfairness and we must make what we can of the hands we are dealt.( We were fortunate enough to adopt our wonderful daughter,after a number of years of heartbreak)
Do we need to try to teach that that little word "I/me" needs to go further down the list?
Hana
Do you really believe it's that simple Hana, for someone in my shoes to just lose weight?. I have struggled for twenty five years with obesity. I hate everything about it. It makes me ill and now I will undergo Gastric bypass surgery as a last measure to help me. A one in two hundred chance of dying on the table. Do you really think that I believe this is the easy option?.
I come here to try to get help with my diabetes. I have got my A1c down considerably. If there are things I can change I really want to but I don't need a lecture, I just need help.
Quote:
I've been getting steamed up by 2 topics lately.
1 those people who feel it's too much of an imposition to expect a dietary change as a result of becoming diabetic and who thus think that medication is the answer.
2 Those people who MUST have stomach surgery, because they need a physical brake to their eating.
Of course it's not fair if you have to do things which are hard, when not everyone has to.
It's not fair, Ican't afford a big house with a big garden and a gardener to go with, when other people can.
It's also not fair I have T2 and my husband T1 and we have to cope with it all.
It wasn't fair that I was childless and wanted a baby and a member of my immediate family had 2 unplanned and unwanted children.( Now that DID hurt)
Life is full of unfairness and we must make what we can of the hands we are dealt.( We were fortunate enough to adopt our wonderful daughter,after a number of years of heartbreak)
Do we need to try to teach that that little word "I/me" needs to go further down the list?
Hana
Do you really believe it's that simple Hana, for someone in my shoes to just lose weight?. I have struggled for twenty five years with obesity. I hate everything about it. It makes me ill and now I will undergo Gastric bypass surgery as a last measure to help me. A one in two hundred chance of dying on the table. Do you really think that I believe this is the easy option?.
I come here to try to get help with my diabetes. I have got my A1c down considerably. If there are things I can change I really want to but I don't need a lecture, I just need help.
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