There is a cure.. how come nobody does this?

I think it is good to let these threads run sometimes.

It highlights the level of judgemental prejudice around. And ignorance.

I mean, various people are stating that all T2 can be crushed by weight loss and exercise because a few people have done it. That is an absurd misuse of logic, isn't it?

Other people are saying that weight loss maximises 'reversal'. Well, not if your T2 isn't weight related. So that is another Moment I feel like banging my head against a wall.

And as for exercise... why is it that Gym Bunnies always conveniently forget that not everyone is able/capable of doing that exercise? Talk about lack of empathy.

Still, we are in a support forum and maybe supporting people to overcome their ignorance and blame is the way to go. Although it does get tiresome.

So I will just suggest that (for starters) People google 'beta cell damage in type 2 diabetics' and 'steroid induced diabetes' 'age related diabetes' and read a few of the after Newcastle Diet threads we have had here on the forum, to see quite how many people have struggled afterwards with weight regain and non reversal.

That should at least give people the chance to see that their narrow viewpoint isn't relevant to a lot of us.

Brunneria said:

I think it is good to let these threads run sometimes.

It highlights the level of judgemental prejudice around. And ignorance.

I mean, various people are stating that all T2 can be crushed by weight loss and exercise because a few people have done it. That is an absurd misuse of logic, isn't it?

Other people are saying that weight loss maximises 'reversal'. Well, not if your T2 isn't weight related. So that is another Moment I feel like banging my head against a wall.

And as for exercise... why is it that Gym Bunnies always conveniently forget that not everyone is able/capable of doing that exercise? Talk about lack of empathy.

Still, we are in a support forum and maybe supporting people to overcome their ignorance and blame is the way to go. Although it does get tiresome.

So I will just suggest that (for starters) People google 'beta cell damage in type 2 diabetics' and 'steroid induced diabetes' 'age related diabetes' and read a few of the after Newcastle Diet threads we have had here on the forum, to see quite how many people have struggled afterwards with weight regain and non reversal.

That should at least give people the chance to see that their narrow viewpoint isn't relevant to a lot of us.

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Yes exactly right Brunneria. I have beta cell damage myself. I think people are just quick to stereotype and they don't consider all the variables as you've pointed out. I would love to get back to the gym as I used to exercise a lot before I got real sick. These days just doing grocery shopping puts me in a lot of pain. It sucks. A lot of my symptoms are triggered by movement too. For me to have a good day with symptoms I have basically have to be resting and not doing anything. And you brought up a good point re: weight... I always think of my mum and great aunt who never had weight problems. I think I inherited my weight problems from my dad. My mums side are all thin... yet some of them have type 2.

Djstevesire said:

This isn't about anyone's diet being better this is about identifying a cure..

The definition of cured or reversed means you no longer have symptoms of t2d because your body is working correctly

While we all
May be different .. we all got here the same way...

Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise.

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9 pages of answers! Well, debate is always good so I'll chuck my bit in too.

Your post above. Which I hope you won't just dismiss? I'm afraid you really have shown a level of ignorance in the last part of your post..and that's me being factual, not uncivil.
There are people who become diabetic through medical conditions. There are people who have genetic conditions that make them susceptible to diabetes. There are people who have to take corticosteroids long term and this can cause diabetes. There are people in the groups above who CANNOT (emphasis or shouting, you choose) safely follow the method you advocate. There are those who cannot undertake strenuous exercise due to illness or disability - although they probably wish they could.

Your blanket assumptions are offensive, and for anyone who thinks I'm being too sensitive, tough. I'm the parent of someone in the above category who is type 2 on insulin. Who has her food intake strictly controlled in a hospital setting. Who pushes herself to go for long walks (accompanied) each day in circumstances that might make others give up.
And you have the audacity to say "that's how we all got here?"

You're wrong. End of.

Djstevesire said:

Agreed .. but also the research on fasting shows that it improves insulin sensitivity..
I understand some people are totally messed up hormonally those are the outliers... but the majority (those who pig out on junk and aren't active) can totally reverse with this method...
Or even fasting for that matter..

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@Djstevesire the majority do not visit this website or its' forums. They expect the pill the Doc dishes out to control their BG in such a way as to carry on as if nothing had happened. I bet a pound to a pinch of pig poop that almost everyone here is trying everything they can to turn the 'D' ship round. There will be a higher percentage of 'outliers' here than the average distribution.
FWIW I had an suit of ultrasound test done shortly after diagnosis. I was hoping to see the bright lights of fat all over my liver and pancreas. Then I would know that to shift the fat would enhance the efficiency of the organs, right? The astonishing revelation was, there was little fat on either organ. My liver is 'tip top' it secretes glucogen whenever my BG goes below 4, and whenever it thinks I need extra energy. My pancreas however, is no longer fully functional, and in mechanics jargon ' is not a repairable part, nor are replacement parts available for my model and age. What I have to do is behave in a way that preserves what function is left, for as long as possible. My HCP would rather hasten its' end and put me on insulin

well I am one of the type ; " Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise."

but still after being low carb in 7 month almost every day,loosing 70 pounds and stopped eating fruits and bread and doing excessive excercise like in the amount of calories burned more than a marathon a week , well I am still not cured, but of cause much better looking and my body looks much healthier, but still being diabetic....

ellagy said:

Well, I don't know.... I don't want to have muscles where I don't currently have em...I want to look like a woman not an over large Ken doll

I know not all those who are diabetic have the same mind set... I was only speaking for myself

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You won't! For the ladies weights will tone. To build muscle a la Mr Atlas requires a high level of testosterone

walnut_face said:

You won't! For the ladies weight will tone. To build muscle a la Mr Atlas requires a high level of testosterone

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Although for those ladies with higher than normal testosterone, it is absurdly easy to look unpleasantly like Mrs Atlas... complete with beard

http://youngwomenshealth.org/2014/02/25/polycystic-ovary-syndrome/

Half of women with PCOS are T2 by the time they are 50 years old. The incidence then rises with age and menopause to much higher than that.

Edited for sense and to add in the link.

Brunneria said:

Although for those ladies with higher than normal testosterone, it is absurdly easy to look unpleasantly like Mrs Atlas... complete with beard

http://youngwomenshealth.org/2014/02/25/polycystic-ovary-syndrome/

Half of women with PCOS are T2 by the time they are 50 years old. The incidence then rises with age and menopause to much higher than that.

Edited for sense and to add in the link.

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yes you are totally right about that, and many of those women do already suffer from looking more masculine than they themselves like... and like in other advice, no advice fits all...

If the OP believes t2 diabetics will be "cured of diabetes" by fasting we will never dis-buse him, weight loss may help but its not a cure, until they perfect Islet transplants or manage to grow new Pancreases there is no cure, and even then the life span of the transplant is limited and all the anti-rejection drugs you may take wont stop its decline.

kittypoker said:

He's about my age so young!

Setting aside the possibility of the Big C, which they would have found, could he be depressed and not eating as much as he tells you? An ulcer disrupting his tummy? It could be that T1 is the most likely candidate if everything else has been discounted.

If it's T1, at least it can be treated, and treated very well these days. And he has you to help him understand that it's a completely controllable condition. You do it brilliantly with T2, and so can he with whatever is eventually diagnosed.

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Thanks @kittypoker . They are still doing all sorts of tests. He seems to eat well when I see him eating and his wife says he eats far more than her ? They did find he had had a minor heart attack, He complained of feeling a bit unwell on holiday last year. I'm not sure what is happening with that but it doesn't seem to stop him doing anything.

Freema said:

well I am one of the type ; " Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise."

but still after being low carb in 7 month almost every day,loosing 70 pounds and stopped eating fruits and bread and doing excessive excercise like in the amount of calories burned more than a marathon a week , well I am still not cured, but of cause much better looking and my body looks much healthier, but still being diabetic....

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That's an interesting point.
I did about a year of slow dieting, which did greatly improve my diabetes, but it wasn't until I finished it off on the Newcastle diet that I actually appeared to reverse my type 2.
There does appear to be some difference in how the body reacts to the differing methodology.
The op touched on this earlier.

Djstevesire said:

I totally agree.. what your speaking of is called (autophagy). .. it then process where your body repairs or consumes damaged cells..

you do not have to be in "starvation" mode for this to occur.. you just need to be fasted for approximately 8-12 hours...

Side point (STARVATION MODE) does not occur until all the fat stores have been used up... this is very rare occurrence.

Think about it. Fat is stored calories to be used when there is no food source. Only when the fat is completely burned off does the body turn to burn muscle.
And I can say that none of us low enough body fat for that to occur.

However the body does need amino acids to use in the conversion from fat to glucose in a process called GLUCOGENESis..

That's why it's advisable to supplement your fast with amino acids.. so the body won't use the ones from your muscles.


I have a Strong belief that autophagy combined with the visceral fat loss is what's causing the reversal of type2 diabetes...

you can fast (NO FOOD) just water and amino acids. I believe it will produce faster results...as your essentially just living off stored fat...

What do you think?

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I think I have a fear of fasting as I have an obsessive tendency to tackle problems. I'd be afraid to like it too much. Like in the past.

douglas99 said:

That's an interesting point.
I did about a year of slow dieting, which did greatly improve my diabetes, but it wasn't until I finished it off on the Newcastle diet that I actually appeared to reverse my type 2.
There does appear to be some difference in how the body reacts to the differing methodology.
The op touched on this earlier.

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I correspondence with Professor Taylor, he said to me he does not believe the speed or style of weight loss is important, but the weight loss to bring the individual below their personal threshold. Maybe you just hadn't lost enough weight prior to the ND to make the difference you required.

And for the avoidance of doubt for the wider readership, I completely acknowledge that not every can reverse their diabetes, due to the multi-cause, multi-impact nature of T2 diabetes.

[

Djstevesire said:

Why would it be hurtful? If you attempted to fix your computer and it didn't work after your repair... would it be hurtful to say that you did it incorrectly?
While giving you the instructions on how to fix it?

This is the exact behavior I'm speaking of. Don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself.. get motivated and fix it..

I know how I got this way.. I was overeating lots of garbage and I wasn't exercising and also smoking..I accept full responsibility.. and now I will take full responsibility to fix it... even if it means going without food...(water fasting)

I am now considered obese and I have prediabetic blood sugar... before going to the doctor I went and did some research that I will be applying ...

You can also apply this technique and rid yourself of this disease...

I'm not talking down to anyone.. I'm sharing a method that I have 100 percent faith in. And I'm in the same boat as everyone else..

so now I will ask.. have you tried this method? It clearly works...
And if it didn't .. that means you need to donit either
1.correctly
2.for a longer duration

This is just reality..

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If it works for you then that's all that matters so good luck with it. Some others may try it and it works for them but there is no one way that works for everyone

AndBreathe said:

I correspondence with Professor Taylor, he said to me he does not believe the speed or style of weight loss is important, but the weight loss to bring the individual below their personal threshold. Maybe you just hadn't lost enough weight prior to the ND to make the difference you required.

And for the avoidance of doubt for the wider readership, I completely acknowledge that not every can reverse their diabetes, due to the multi-cause, multi-impact nature of T2 diabetes.

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In his published works he does state any weight loss of any type will always be beneficial, which indeed it will be, but he's never claimed any reversal from slow weight loss yet as far as I'm aware?

As to my personal fat threshold, I do let my weight vary up and down, and I would surmise I have been over my initial Newcastle diet starting weight, (and back below it, but probably not as far as the finishing weight, I looked a bit too gaunt for my own liking), so maybe were the fat comes and goes from is key, unless there is a hysteresis curve.

I've just ploughed through this lot.

Unfortunately, the OP comes across as a bigot.

That is, someone who maintains a belief in the face of any evidence to the contrary, and also mis-states supporting evidence (sometimes with different numbers). Plus obviously not being well and broadly read on the subject. Apparently all the continual reaffirmations are based on reading one study and no personal experience of T2 diabetes. The main piece of bigotry is the statement that if the supposed cure hasn't worked then the diabetic "must be doing it wrong".

This is not meant as an insult, just as an observation.

A few points:

1. The study being repeatedly quoted ended with the testing of 10 people. 3 were still diabetic. If you are cured you don't revert in under 6 months.
2. This was a study of 10 people! Lord alone knows how anyone can claim to extrapolate from such a limited trial to the conclusion that this strategy will work for everyone.
3. It is already well known that there are at least two major reasons for developing T2. Broadly, one is due to insulin resistance coupled with too much visceral fat. The other is due to reduced production of insulin, generally due to genetic factors but also sometimes due to drug side effects (read the leaflet that comes with statins). You can reverse insulin resistance and visceral fat through diet and exercise (usually) but so far nobody has shown that you can revive a failing pancreas (sadly).
4. The trial carefully selected the participants; less than 5 years diabetic, overweight to seriously obese. This is not a true cross section of diabetics because roughly 20% are not overweight on diagnosis. So a very limited sub-set of diabetics were involved in this trial. Did I mention there were only 10 who completed it?

All this trial does is indicate the need for more research to establish how effective this approach is across a broader spectrum of people with T2 diabetes. It does not define a cure that will work for everyone "if they do it right".

It does suggest that if overweight+ T2s immediately on diagnosis are strongly encouraged to follow the Newcastle Diet (or similar) then they may see dramatic improvements before too much long term damage is done.

I have a lot of sympathy with the OP's argument that the results of this study should be more widely publicised and included in any education of the newly (and long term) diagnosed with full support from primary and secondary health care.

I have absolutely no sympathy with the bigoted, condescending and frankly offensive tone of the posts which continually restate that anyone who has not reversed T2 diabetes is "not doing it right".

Has anyone here thought that what the OP is suggesting might work for some diabetics and get them the results they would like to have. We can't say it won't work because we simply do not know that

Pinkorchid said:

Has anyone here thought that what the OP is suggesting might work for some diabetics and get them the results they would like to have. We can't say it won't work because we simply do not know that

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I don't think anyone is taking issue with the results of the Newcastle Diet study and another similar (if that is what the original post was about).. which may or may not be the same. Although the study does not seem to provide published continuous follow up on the participants which may be considered odd.

What most have taken issue with is the bombastic way the OP stated that we should all be able to reverse Type 2 if we just "did the ND properly". And if we didn't manage to do that then we "weren't doing it right".

The original study had a 40% success rate out of the 29 involved. This 40% who after 6 months had "reversed" their Type 2 by measure of their normal blood glucose levels. I have not been able to find any further follow up information. So we have an original study which had limited success possibly repeated with a group of 11 recently diagnosed specifically chosen subjects which also had some success.

Unfortunately the OP decided that this meant we could all reverse Type 2 by going on very low calorie diets even though he is by his own admission not really doing this himself.
Instead he is fasting and eating OMAD (One meal a day) whilst working out with weights.

I think that covers a lot of the reasons why we got a bit annoyed, possibly even more so by the fact that this was his first post here.

douglas99 said:

In his published works he does state any weight loss of any type will always be beneficial, which indeed it will be, but he's never claimed any reversal from slow weight loss yet as far as I'm aware?

As to my personal fat threshold, I do let my weight vary up and down, and I would surmise I have been over my initial Newcastle diet starting weight, (and back below it, but probably not as far as the finishing weight, I looked a bit too gaunt for my own liking), so maybe were the fat comes and goes from is key, unless there is a hysteresis curve.

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I'm sure professor Taylor wouldn't claim that because I don't believe his studies have covered it. As you know, his initial work was mimicking the impacts of bariatric surgery.

AndBreathe said:

I'm sure professor Taylor wouldn't claim that because I don't believe his studies have covered it. As you know, his initial work was mimicking the impacts of bariatric surgery.

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Yes indeed, anything after that is supposition.