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There is Hope.

Like, like! Not funny emoji with fat fingers. Sorry.
 
Runica said:
Like, like! Not funny emoji with fat fingers. Sorry.
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Lol
There is a way to remedey. Just click on 'Undo Rating' on the right lower side of the text box.
You did make me smile, though.
 
Guzzler said:
Covering:

Hypertension, Insulin Resistance, Salt, Fructose, Visceral Fat and Beta cell function. It ended too soon for me.

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Just watched it. Great, thanks. It's interesting how a lot of the scientific understanding is converging, but with people (including scientists) focusing on their own particular interpretation of the results.

One interesting thing which isn't often mentioned, is that (I think, unless I missed it in that video and most of the other stuff I've ever read) is that while LCHF gets great results, the only thing everyone agrees on is that it's the low carbs which is the good thing. The high fat is just required to replace the carbs. I don't think I've ever heard / read anyone saying fat is good for you in and of itself.

So approaches that aim for rapid weight loss by reduced calories and happen to have low carbs as a result of low everything (including low fat) will be getting similar results (and do).
 
AdamJames said:
Just watched it. Great, thanks. It's interesting how a lot of the scientific understanding is converging, but with people (including scientists) focusing on their own particular interpretation of the results.

One interesting thing which isn't often mentioned, is that (I think, unless I missed it in that video and most of the other stuff I've ever read) is that while LCHF gets great results, the only thing everyone agrees on is that it's the low carbs which is the good thing. The high fat is just required to replace the carbs. I don't think I've ever heard / read anyone saying fat is good for you in and of itself.

So approaches that aim for rapid weight loss by reduced calories and happen to have low carbs as a result of low everything (including low fat) will be getting similar results (and do).
Click to expand...

It is the sustainability of such rapid weight loss approaches that concerns me. After the initial 'reversal' a pwT2 would surely have to continue on a lower carb regime so as to maintain A1c etc.
 
Guzzler said:
It is the sustainability of such rapid weight loss approaches that concerns me. After the initial 'reversal' a pwT2 would surely have to continue on a lower carb regime so as to maintain A1c etc.
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Yes I wouldn't be at all surprised if LCHF became a very good approach to help maintain the weight loss, and unless the T2 was caught very early, also important to maintain good blood sugars. Some seem to have reversed it so decisively that they can get away with carbs so long as they don't regain weight however. But I'd question whether it's sensible to go back to eating "normal" levels of carbs.

Re speed of weight loss, I have to say, in all the reading around I've done, I don't think there is much evidence for the idea that rapid weight loss is particularly bad at screwing up one's metabolism. I may have missed a study which contradicts that of course.

All the meta studies I've seen so far suggest that the speed of weight loss makes little difference. Basically, if you've spent many years being obese then manage to get thin, then no matter how you achieved that, your resting metabolism is probably going to be reduced by around 15%. Potentially more.

Sustained weight loss seems to be just damned hard. People are going to be fat or thin. If people are predisposed to being fat, get fat, then work damned hard to get thin, they will almost certainly be spending the rest of their lives having to eat, say, 500 calories a day less than someone of the same gender, age and weight who was never overweight.

Add to that the fact that most people get T2 when they get older, so their bodies are already more inclined to gain weight and lose muscle. The battle is immense.

Interestingly, one of the most extreme weight loss regimes ever studied - The Biggest Loser - shows that, sure enough, 6 years after contestants broke their backs to get incredible results in a very short time, they had regained almost all the weight, and had reduced resting metabolisms. But - and this is the interesting bit - the people conducting the study also said that they had, in fact, fared slightly better than people who lost weight in other studies involving less rapid methods.

Anyway the beauty of LCHF, I think, is that it may help some people to lose weight, and while doing so will also help T2s avoid toxic blood sugars, and even if insufficient weight is lost to help reverse T2, or no amount of weight loss would reverse it for them, then so long as they stick to LCHF, it doesn't really matter.
 
I forgot to say that bariatric surgery seems to be the only weight loss method that doesn't result in horrible reduction of resting metabolism.
 
The most important thing for me in the vid was the premise that it is visceral fat (mostly?) that is lost first. As a TOFI this was high on my list to sort out if I could. The loss of subcutaneous fat was never an issue for me until recently, now it is a problem in that I feel I have lost just too much.
 
AdamJames said:
I forgot to say that bariatric surgery seems to be the only weight loss method that doesn't result in horrible reduction of resting metabolism.
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Jason Fung would disagree with this. :)

He references studies saying that fasting does not reduce basal metabolic rates.
I will tag in @bulkbiker because he may have the links to hand.
 
bulkbiker said:
and fasting of course..
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Brunneria said:
Jason Fung would disagree with this. :)

He references studies saying that fasting does not reduce basal metabolic rates.
I will tag in @bulkbiker because he may have the links to hand.
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I read an article by Fung recently on that very subject! I wasn't sure what to make of it. If I was following his train of thought, he showed a study in which bariatric patients seemed to lose weight without a reduction in BMR, and said that that showed that fasting works. But a typical bariatric patient diet is not fasting as far as I'm aware, its sort of the opposite - lots of small inputs of food throughout the day.
 
bulkbiker said:
https://idmprogram.com/fix-broken-metabolism/
one of the many..

https://idmprogram.com/difference-calorie-restriction-fasting-fasting-27/
and another
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Aha! I think the first link is to the very article I was just referring to. I'll read it again. Or perhaps you could save me some time - is there a specific study that monitors what happens to people's BMR's after a long period of fasting, to compare with a similar period of calorie restriction but with regular meals?
 
AdamJames said:
I read an article by Fung recently on that very subject! I wasn't sure what to make of it. If I was following his train of thought, he showed a study in which bariatric patients seemed to lose weight without a reduction in BMR, and said that that showed that fasting works. But a typical bariatric patient diet is not fasting as far as I'm aware, its sort of the opposite - lots of small inputs of food throughout the day.
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I recently posted a diet plan from Guys hospital here ...their aim for pre bariatric surgery patients was ketosis!
I had a sneaky thought that this was why the surgery works so well.. they are halfway there before the first cut.
 
AdamJames said:
Aha! I think the first link is to the very article I was just referring to. I'll read it again. Or perhaps you could save me some time - is there a specific study that monitors what happens to people's BMR's after a long period of fasting, to compare with a similar period of calorie restriction but with regular meals?
Click to expand...
I'm afraid I don't have a library of studies to hand. If I find anything I'll post it and tag you.
 
Guzzler said:
The most important thing for me in the vid was the premise that it is visceral fat (mostly?) that is lost first. As a TOFI this was high on my list to sort out if I could. The loss of subcutaneous fat was never an issue for me until recently, now it is a problem in that I feel I have lost just too much.
Click to expand...

I feel for you. I did remember reading an article by Jason Fung a while ago which highlighted a study which seemed to show that fasting was good at reducing visceral fat specifically.
 
bulkbiker said:
I recently posted a diet plan from Guys hospital here ...their aim for pre bariatric surgery patients was ketosis!
I had a sneaky thought that this was why the surgery works so well.. they are halfway there before the first cut.
Click to expand...

It would certainly be great if we discovered for certain why bariatric surgery gets such good results, if it meant we could follow a plan that didn't require the actual surgery!

I think one theory was that the smaller stomach started releasing different hormones or different amounts of hormones, and someone suspected that the brain played a huge part in controlling BMR based on these hormones. Or probably not, I can't remember.
 
AdamJames said:
Aha! I think the first link is to the very article I was just referring to. I'll read it again. Or perhaps you could save me some time - is there a specific study that monitors what happens to people's BMR's after a long period of fasting, to compare with a similar period of calorie restriction but with regular meals?
Click to expand...
This is a study of studies on fasting.. there may be something here.. I'm off to bed so can't be a**ed to read it all..sorry.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/
 
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