Times they are a changing!

York Man,
I agree about the quality of bread in the UK and the bread that is often sold as wholemeal in other parts as well.I do find far more problems choosing and dosing for bread in the UK than the bread I buy here in France (luckily there is far more choice than the ubiquitous baguette!)
Jim Mann makes this point very strongly in a lecture about carbohydrate quality in diabetes diets given to the EASD conference. He authored the most recent EASD dietary guidelines. He was pointing out that carbohydrate quality was crucial and the original evidence base came from diets using high fibre carbohydrates. He suggested that this not interpreted (missed) by some national diabetic guidelines
He makes the point that the loaf on the top left is a true heavy whole grain bread (ie this is the better option) The one on the bottom left is what is often sold as healthy whole grain but in his opinion is just as bad as the one on the right.
http://www.easdvirtualmeeting.org/resou ... 6P43nbsI3A

hanadr said:

There's plenty of evidence that the cholesterol level a person has doesn't relate directly to incidence of coronary artery disease. People with low cholesterol have heart attacks too.

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Without wanting to get into the cholesterol and CVD discussion, I think Type 2 diabetics who have high trig levels will get lower BG levels if they can get their trigs down.

phoenix said:

The one on the bottom left is what is often sold as healthy whole grain but in his opinion is just as bad as the one on the right.
http://www.easdvirtualmeeting.org/resou ... 6P43nbsI3A

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I agree, it looks just an average 'brown loaf' and quite unlike anything one ever sees on the continent.

That's a very good presentation and he sums it up perfectly, "pity the person who tries to find out what is going on". The general advice is conflicting. The best advice I have seen on this website has been along the lines of become your own expert and learn what works for you.


Herring works for me:

catherinecherub said:

I didn't think it was ethical for a dietitian to give advice on a one to one on the internet?
How can you tell someone what they have to do if you are not privy to their medical history? Do you know of any allergies, other medical conditions etc...?

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I think it was a very reasoned response, in the context of this thread, among intelligent posters who are aware of their diet, and what particular types of food does to us.
I asked the question

"I'm currently, calories restricted, low/zero fat, and low carb by the calorie counting.
Losing weight steadily.
I'm going to avoid trans fats for life, and will also continue to restrict carbs, and also only eat ones that agree with me. Low GI.

I can't continue to lose weight, so eventually will need to up the calories.
At the moment, it's going to be protein, oily fish, lean steak, chicken, no processed meats, (but the odd rasher of bacon, and the odd burger), and some unsaturated fats, olive oil for salads, sunflower oil for cooking.
No eggs, no dairy, no saturated, (not absolute, just a general rule)
I want to lower my LDL, and raise HDL, what is your opinion?"

I think the answer was pretty much spot on in terms of the discussion so far.

The bread I eat on an almost daily basis is like the bread top left in phoenix's pic, it has real whole grains baked into the bread not just a sprinkling of seeds or grains on the top like some loaves I see sold as being healthy, and as for wholemeal....

As Ive said many times on here wholemeal bread is just as bad as white bread as far as bg levels are concerned.

douglas99 said:

I can't continue to lose weight, so eventually will need to up the calories.

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I actually found it unnecessary to increase calories after weight loss and I suspect the reason to be that when I was overweight I needed x calories to maintain that weight, as the weight was lost by eating less food and therefore fewer cals my new slimmer body requires fewer cals to maintain the new lower weight.

So although I have now lost over 5 stone I havent really increased what I eat in fact I am still eating a lot less than I was pre diabetes. I guess my stomach is now used to a smaller amount of food to deal with but I am still getting all the nourishment I need to fuel my smaller frame.

If I went back to my old way of life I suspect i would soon put back the weight that I lost and theres no way that I will let that happen if I can avoid it.

Sid Bonkers said:

douglas99 said:

I can't continue to lose weight, so eventually will need to up the calories.

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I actually found it unnecessary to increase calories after weight loss and I suspect the reason to be that when I was overweight I needed x calories to maintain that weight, as the weight was lost by eating less food and therefore fewer cals my new slimmer body requires fewer cals to maintain the new lower weight.

So although I have now lost over 5 stone I havent really increased what I eat in fact I am still eating a lot less than I was pre diabetes. I guess my stomach is now used to a smaller amount of food to deal with but I am still getting all the nourishment I need to fuel my smaller frame.

If I went back to my old way of life I suspect i would soon put back the weight that I lost and theres no way that I will let that happen if I can avoid it.

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Very true.

As you lose weight you do need less calories, but I'm on 1200 calories a day, so I do reckon at some stage I will need to increase them.
And even then, if I don't need to increase my calories, I want to adjust my diet to improve my cholesterol figures, hence the quest for the perfect (for me) diet.

tonyS54 said:

Wow we seem to have gone a bit off topic here :roll: but seeing were on about bread in the past I've tried many different ones including supposedly low gi, non have proved to be any use in keeping my blood glucose at a decent level that is until tried LIvLife two slices only give me small rise in bg.

Back on topic check out this graph.

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL LEVELS vs MORTALITY DATA from 164 COUNTRIES
Sources: BHF-HEARTSTATS and WHO-MORTALITY (Adapted)

http://renegadewellness.files.wordpress ... -chart.pdf

Note. 200-240 mg/dl is approx 5.2 - 6.2 mmol/L

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The problem with mortality figures is that they are a poor indicator as many in first world countries wouldn't die, but would certainly lose quality of life.
So we may indeed have higher cholesterol, due to a richer diet, and a much lower mortality rate, due to better healthcare.

Other counties have no healthcare, and a completely unbalanced diet that may indeed lead to low cholesterol, but will still die.

Incidences of heart disease, would be a better measurement.

Having said that, the chart is annotated

"Cardiovascular diseases and
total cholesterol are weakly
correlated"

so I'm not ignoring that warning.

Hania_dietitian said:

I like your diet, but I hope you eat PLENTY of vegetables. With this kind of diet you need a lot vitamins. I would change sunflower oil for rice or grape seed oil. These two are the best oils for cooking. Olive oil is very good for salads.
I would also add some diary, maybe not every day for example 3x/week low lat cottage cheese or low fat yogurt.

This diet is good to lose weight and improve your lipid profile. However, as you know, you cannot be on this diet for a long time. You will need to add wholegrain bread. The best one is rye bread. For dinner quinoa is very good and healthy carb. To be honest, it tastes like carb, but it has plenty of protein and some polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Good luck!

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Tried Quinoa, bulgar wheat and pistachio as a meal out
With beer, and still a good bs reading later, so thanks for the suggestion. May not work for everyone, but it worked for me.