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Trying to make sense of what the BG Meter is telling me.

Alineden

Alineden

Well-Known Member
Messages
136
Location
West Cumbria
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Not much really
Hi everyone

I'm still struggling a bit to understand what sometimes causes raised BG and today has been typical.

I've actually given up testing first thing in the morning as it always seems to be high with liver dump and it's quite frustrating but I still test after meals (2 hours usually). Today due to work I only got chance to test for the first time 40 minutes after lunch. I then went for a 20 walk, tested again, then after the usual 2 hours.

The first test was a bit of a 1 off. I don't usually test that soon after eating. The reading was 9.6 mmol/l which I thought was high for what I had eaten. After a walk I tested again and as expected it had dropped, 6.7 mmol/l. But when I tested at the usual 2 hours it had gone up to 8 mmol/l. What's that all about?

I had scrambled eggs and 3 rashes of bacon for breakfast and lunch was a thai curry that I reckon had 5g of carbs in the curry paste plus whatever was in the chicken thighs, onion, coconut cream and coconut oil.

The only thing I'd had after lunch was a black coffee and a glass of water.

Doesn't that seem high for what I've eaten?
 
There are soooo many variables.

Something to consider. You know yourself best, so disregard if it will set you back.

Keep record of morning fasting level anyway.

I am like you w morning spike; especially if insomnia hits.

Here’s the exciting part:

This is a marathon of life.

My morning BG has improved over 6 months time.

I wouldn’t have seen this if I avoided the tracking due to discouragement.

Yet, I try not to weigh myself daily as fluctuations discourage!

Knowing yourself is vital.

I read advice from 1650 (seriously) that basically describes diabetes and low carb (honey) diet and intermittent fasting as remedy.

He (not a doctor) wrote that each person must reason within themself as we are all different.

He said combine observations of nature and our own appetites with our elevated reason.

Great stuff.
 
Keep in mind that meal-to-meal is not the whole picture. Your body is crammed full of glucose through years of overexposure. Your diabetes isn’t just a moment-to-moment reaction of the last thing you ate. It’s a combination of many factors, including but not limited to, your last meal and your current level of insulin resistance. The path to recovery isn’t just about making it from one meal to the next, it’s about purging your body of all that glucose that’s already there. This can take a very long time to achieve, depending on the progression of your condition and your commitment to fixing it. Sometimes you’ll find your blood glucose reactions are quite elastic, and very often dietary choices can have an effect days down the line.

Minimise insulin secretion at all times by limiting or eliminating carbohydrate. Keep moving as much as possible. In time, stability will return as your insulin sensitivity improves and your tissues aren’t chock-a-block with a decade’s worth of glucose. Small moves :)
 
One should test just before the first bite of food and then two hours after the first bite otherwise the readings are random. What the difference between these two readings is will tell you how you have reacted to that meal. Generally we are looking for a difference of no more than 2mmol, preferably less. Factoring in a reading after excercise will also confuse. Before and after. You are looking for reactions to food and reactions to excercise and you are looking for trends.

I gave up taking fasting readings for the same reason but returned to taking them when my pre and post meal readings improved and I was pleasantly surprised at my FBGs.

Keep a diary of what you eat with your pre and post meal readings along with the carb amount for that meal.
 
Mr_Pot said:
Where is all this glucose stored, bearing in mind that not all diabetics are overweight?
Click to expand...

According to Jason Fung, once fat cells and the the liver’s glcogen stores are full, the excess glucose accumulates in the blood, tissues and organs. Apparently it’s the reason why hypoglycaemics, and exogenous insulin especially, don’t tend to improve long term health outcomes in type 2s - because they just move the glucose out of the blood and into tissues, where it remains toxic and eventually causes complications, even if the blood appears clean. It’s this glucose that must be purged.

On the wider topic of T2DM and obesity - Stored body fat is glucose that’s been safely stored away, but we only have a finite amount of fat cells, and once they’re full, the glucose begins to accumulate in the blood and body. In fact, contrary to accepted dogma, obesity is actually a protective mechanism that delays the onset of diabetes. Some people, myself included, do not have many fat cells and thus are not able to become obese. In these people, the onset of type 2 diabetes occurs much sooner than it would have if de novo lipogenesis had been able to safely convert more glucose into fat. I was 61kg when diagnosed type 2, so I’m no stranger to this theory :)
 
Jim Lahey said:
According to Jason Fung, once fat cells and the the liver’s glcogen stores are full, the excess glucose accumulates in the blood, tissues and organs. Apparently it’s the reason why hypoglycaemics, and exogenous insulin especially, don’t tend to improve long term health outcomes in type 2s - because they just move the glucose out of the blood and into tissues, where it remains toxic and eventually causes complications, even if the blood appears clean. It’s this glucose that must be purged.

On the wider topic of T2DM and obesity - Stored body fat is glucose that’s been safely stored away, but we only have a finite amount of fat cells, and once they’re full, the glucose begins to accumulate in the blood and body. In fact, contrary to accepted dogma, obesity is actually a protective mechanism that delays the onset of diabetes. Some people, myself included, do not have many fat cells and thus are not able to become obese. In these people, the onset of type 2 diabetes occurs much sooner than it would have if de novo lipogenesis had been able to safely convert more glucose into fat. I was 61kg when diagnosed type 2, so I’m no stranger to this theory :)
Click to expand...
Glucose is stored in the liver and muscles as glycogen. In a "normal" person enough glycogen in the liver (about 100g) to keep their vital organs supplied for about a day without any input from food. The glycogen in the muscles (about 400g) is a rapid source of energy during exercise and lasts of the order of 90 minutes of continuous energy expenditure such as when distance running. So a "normal" person might completely deplete their stored glucose with a day of fasting and a 90 minute run and then have to rely on stored fat for energy. My concern is with your assertion that the tissues of a diabetic are chock-a-block with a decade’s worth of glucose that needs to be purged. How much glycogen do you think is stored in the liver and muscles of a diabetic and if not there, where else and in what form?
 
Mr_Pot said:
Glucose is stored in the liver and muscles as glycogen. In a "normal" person enough glycogen in the liver (about 100g) to keep their vital organs supplied for about a day without any input from food. The glycogen in the muscles (about 400g) is a rapid source of energy during exercise and lasts of the order of 90 minutes of continuous energy expenditure such as when distance running. So a "normal" person might completely deplete their stored glucose with a day of fasting and a 90 minute run and then have to rely on stored fat for energy. My concern is with your assertion that the tissues of a diabetic are chock-a-block with a decade’s worth of glucose that needs to be purged. How much glycogen do you think is stored in the liver and muscles of a diabetic and if not there, where else and in what form?
Click to expand...

It’s not my assertion, it’s the view of Jason Fung, and I’m fairly sure he knows more than both of us :)

We’re talking about glucose being forced into the tissues because the blood and glycogen stores are full, and the body is running out of places to store fat, not glycogen stores in the muscles and liver. He may be wrong but you’d have to take it up with him. From everything I’ve learned and experienced myself, though, he’s correct. It certainly explains why it takes several months to reverse diabetes, not one day and a jog around the block.

For more information read The Diabetes Code. Whilst it may not all be inscrutable fact, it’s very interesting and seems grounded in science and logic. Jason Fung is a word leader in reversing diabetes, and definitely isn’t a quack :)
 
Jim Lahey said:
It’s not my assertion, it’s the view of Jason Fung, and I’m fairly sure he knows more than both of us :)

We’re talking about glucose being forced into the tissues because the blood and glycogen stores are full, and the body is running out of places to store fat, not glycogen stores in the muscles and liver. He may be wrong but you’d have to take it up with him. From everything I’ve learned and experienced myself, though, he’s correct. It certainly explains why it takes several months to reverse diabetes, not one day and a jog around the block.

For more information read The Diabetes Code. Whilst it may not all be inscrutable fact, it’s very interesting and seems grounded in science and logic. Jason Fung is a word leader in reversing diabetes, and definitely isn’t a quack :)
Click to expand...
Maybe you could save me from having to read the whole thing and just give me a quote where he explains how glucose is forced into tissues?
 
Mr_Pot said:
Maybe you could save me from having to read the whole thing and just give me a quote where he explains how glucose is forced into tissues?
Click to expand...

Give him a ring. Not sure what you want me to say? If you really care you’ll read the book ;)

We can debate the veracity of his claims all night if you like, but I’m quite sure he knows more than you or I ever will. Personally I believe him. You’re free not to. Get the audiobook - he narrates it too, and his voice is very soothing and easy to listen to :)
 
Alineden said:
Doesn't that seem high for what I've eaten?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I appreciate it can be difficult testing around work breaks but I don't think you can make a judgement about what is high at 40 mins when you did not test before the meal.

If you want us to check the paste for you just ask by telling us the brand details and approx portion used.
 
Mr_Pot said:
Maybe you could save me from having to read the whole thing and just give me a quote where he explains how glucose is forced into tissues?
Click to expand...

Perhaps this？
https://idmprogram.com/obesity-is-protective/
Insulin has several roles. One is to allow glucose into cells. Another is to stop glucose production and fat burning in the liver (gluconeogenesis). After this stops, then it stores glycogen in the liver and turns excessive carbohydrates and protein into fat via de novo lipogenesis. Insulin is basically a hormone to signal the body to store some of the incoming food energy, either as glycogen or fat.
Click to expand...
 
I believe Jim is giving a fair representation of the book.

A “decade’s worth” isn’t literal glucose but overall impact including the pancreas and the sensitivity that will take time to recover.

This doctor is getting results.
 
Ponchu said:
There are soooo many variables.

Something to consider. You know yourself best, so disregard if it will set you back.

Keep record of morning fasting level anyway.

I am like you w morning spike; especially if insomnia hits.

Here’s the exciting part:

This is a marathon of life.

My morning BG has improved over 6 months time.

I wouldn’t have seen this if I avoided the tracking due to discouragement.

Yet, I try not to weigh myself daily as fluctuations discourage!

Knowing yourself is vital.

I read advice from 1650 (seriously) that basically describes diabetes and low carb (honey) diet and intermittent fasting as remedy.

He (not a doctor) wrote that each person must reason within themself as we are all different.

He said combine observations of nature and our own appetites with our elevated reason.

Great stuff.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Poncho
 
Jim Lahey said:
Keep in mind that meal-to-meal is not the whole picture. Your body is crammed full of glucose through years of overexposure. Your diabetes isn’t just a moment-to-moment reaction of the last thing you ate. It’s a combination of many factors, including but not limited to, your last meal and your current level of insulin resistance. The path to recovery isn’t just about making it from one meal to the next, it’s about purging your body of all that glucose that’s already there. This can take a very long time to achieve, depending on the progression of your condition and your commitment to fixing it. Sometimes you’ll find your blood glucose reactions are quite elastic, and very often dietary choices can have an effect days down the line.

Minimise insulin secretion at all times by limiting or eliminating carbohydrate. Keep moving as much as possible. In time, stability will return as your insulin sensitivity improves and your tissues aren’t chock-a-block with a decade’s worth of glucose. Small moves :)
Click to expand...
Thanks Jim. Another great reply. Plus you might have hit on something I hadn't mentioned. Last Friday was our anniversary and we went out for a meal. This wasn't the first meal out I've had since diagnosis but it was the first where I allowed myself free choice from the menu. When I got home my BG was 18mmol/l. I tested an hour later to see if it had gone up any more but it had dropped to 11 mmol/l.

Could the effects of that meal still be seen days later? I know I won't be doing it again in a hurry as the hunger I was enjoying being free from returned and I've had to rely on willpower to stop myself from snacking since. I know this will pass though.
 
It’s not the fat. Fat is stored energy, not glucose. It’s protective against diabetes onset. Fatty liver and fatty pancreas is a different matter, mind you :)
 
Jim Lahey said:
According to Jason Fung, once fat cells and the the liver’s glcogen stores are full, the excess glucose accumulates in the blood, tissues and organs. Apparently it’s the reason why hypoglycaemics, and exogenous insulin especially, don’t tend to improve long term health outcomes in type 2s - because they just move the glucose out of the blood and into tissues, where it remains toxic and eventually causes complications, even if the blood appears clean. It’s this glucose that must be purged.

On the wider topic of T2DM and obesity - Stored body fat is glucose that’s been safely stored away, but we only have a finite amount of fat cells, and once they’re full, the glucose begins to accumulate in the blood and body. In fact, contrary to accepted dogma, obesity is actually a protective mechanism that delays the onset of diabetes. Some people, myself included, do not have many fat cells and thus are not able to become obese. In these people, the onset of type 2 diabetes occurs much sooner than it would have if de novo lipogenesis had been able to safely convert more glucose into fat. I was 61kg when diagnosed type 2, so I’m no stranger to this theory :)
Click to expand...
There a two things springing to mind here Jim. Firstly despite usually eating LCHF quite strictly my weight loss has been satisfactory but I've never seen even a trace of ketones when using a pee stick. Perhaps my body still has access to too much glucose regardless of what I eat.

Secondly perhaps I need to up my efforts to fast to reduce the stored glucose quicker.
 
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