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Type 1 and a ketogenic diet

GBS_82_

GBS_82_

Well-Known Member
Messages
70
Location
Croydon, London
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi all

Hope everyone is well and in range. I've posted on keto diets before so forgive me if this seems repetitive.

So, my DSN is adamant that I should not go on a ketogenic diet and that I must eat (a small amount) of carbs with at least two meals a day.

Should we be worried that the NHS is so against keto diets? What does everyone think?

THANKS

Gareth x x
 
Hi @GBS_82_ There is nothing wrong with a Keto diet as a T1. Many people do undertake them (me included from time to time). I wouldn't say that I go "No carb" though as I like to eat a healthy diet and green veg does contain small amounts of carbs.

The main reason that DSNs are against them is that they are taught to go by the Eatwell plate as there is a lack of systematic evidence to support the Keto approach. One thing you do need to be careful with is monitoring your blood glucose levels and making sure you are adjusting your insulin accordingly. That's absolutely critical in embarking on this type of diet and if you are not confident in doing this, I'd recommend that you learn about it and become confident before starting.
 
Hey. Can I ask what the benefit of a keto diet is? Apologies if this seems ignorant but I thought the body needed carbs?
 
Hi @Lynz84 , the body doesn't need carbs. There is no such thing as an essential carb. Have a read of this if you want to know more. The idea that carbohydrate is an essential nutrient is mainly due to misunderstandings about what the brain needs to function properly.
 
tim2000s said:
Hi @Lynz84 , the body doesn't need carbs. There is no such thing as an essential carb. Have a read of this if you want to know more. The idea that carbohydrate is an essential nutrient is mainly due to misunderstandings about what the brain needs to function properly.
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Thats very interesting! Thank you Tim2000s
 
The body might not need carbs, but I find it's much easier to,control BS with them. I have very good insulin sensitivity and I wouldn't want to lose that. As going too low carb/Keto can affect nsulin sensitivity, it's not something I'd ever do @GBS_82_

I find a moderately low level of carbs works best for control and weight.
 
If you learn to use your insulin properly, you can eat a moderate carb diet and still have good control.

It's a personal choice obviously - but I find that ULCHF or keto diets really restrict your food options. I love food, I love all food - and I love eating! For that reason I don't want to limit what I can and can't have - T1D already puts restrictions on life, I don't need anymore...
 
GrantGam said:
If you learn to use your insulin properly, you can eat a moderate carb diet and still have good control.

It's a personal choice obviously - but I find that ULCHF or keto diets really restrict your food options. I love food, I love all food - and I love eating! For that reason I don't want to limit what I can and can't have - T1D already puts restrictions on life, I don't need anymore...
Click to expand...
It's an interesting one. It very much depends on how much you cook. When we've (me and my partner) gone on VLC eating, it's mainly been because it works very well in tandem with resistance training to remove body fat (and I'm talking dropping 50% of body fat in 15 weeks), but it also has a corollary of providing excellent blood glucose levels as an aside with much less effort than is needed when "using your insulin properly", which is an oft overlooked benefit of low carb eating.

If you do cook yourself, you can put together some amazing and varied meals, and make all your work colleagues jealous. If you are eating local take-away fair though, I'd agree, it can be much harder to find a variety of foods to eat.
 
There's also the fact being low carb or VLC leaves you feeling much more human, the more carbs I eat (even "using my insulin properly") the more I feel like a Zombie.
 
I marked that Funny @Engineer88 because it made me smile, but I didn't mean to be flippant. Have you had things like your thyroid checked, etc? It's a bit worrying if you're feeling that 'off' when you eat carbs.
 
azure said:
I marked that Funny @Engineer88 because it made me smile, but I didn't mean to be flippant. Have you had things like your thyroid checked, etc? It's a bit worrying if you're feeling that 'off' when you eat carbs.
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yes @azure I'm coeliac and hypothyroid as well as Diabetic but I really cant handle carbs well. My bg often goes shooting up and takes ages to come down, I loose insulin sensitivity the longer I'm using specific insulin's for. I could now bolus 30 mins in advance and still spike. Mornings by far are worst and affect the whole day so I try and stick to yog, berrys and nuts now.
 
That must be very frustrating for you : ( Insulin resistance is something I worry about, as I can see how much harder it makes control.

It just shows we're all different in what we need and what works for us as individuals diet-wise :)

I don't know if this would be relevant or interesting to you, but this guy increased his insulin sensitivity by 800%, he says:

https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/...betes-and-40-marathons-for-awareness-262610/#

Bit of a read there, but if you keep going you can see his claim and his figures further down.
 
azure said:
That must be very frustrating for you : ( Insulin resistance is something I worry about, as I can see how much harder it makes control.

It just shows we're all different in what we need and what works for us as individuals diet-wise :)

I don't know if this would be relevant or interesting to you, but this guy increased his insulin sensitivity by 800%, he says:

https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/...betes-and-40-marathons-for-awareness-262610/#

Bit of a read there, but if you keep going you can see his claim and his figures further down.
Click to expand...

Thanks @azure but I'm not interested in running or any high intensity sport, I quite like being able to have a flat line (or close to) without trying to fit in shed loads of exercise just to try and eat carbs - plus it still doesn't help the brain fog I get from them. Also when I low carb I can reduce hypos significantly and deal with any lower bg in a much better way, I don't turn into an eating machine.
 
azure said:
That must be very frustrating for you : ( Insulin resistance is something I worry about, as I can see how much harder it makes control.

It just shows we're all different in what we need and what works for us as individuals diet-wise :)

I don't know if this would be relevant or interesting to you, but this guy increased his insulin sensitivity by 800%, he says:

https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/...betes-and-40-marathons-for-awareness-262610/#

Bit of a read there, but if you keep going you can see his claim and his figures further down.
Click to expand...
He's using the MangoMan approach, which has been discussed at length before, and is linked to the discussions we've had with Marty Kendall about Insulin Index.

Essentially, if you cut out one or another macro-nutrient and then eat a whole food diet, it appears to be much easier to manage glucose levels. And if you do it with large amounts of exercise, it changes insulin sensitivity (in his case, very dramatically).

A similar thing happens to me when I'm low carb and resistance training 3x per week. As you say, a classic case of YDMV.

I do think there is an interesting topic of research here in T1 though, undertaking a 6 month double RCT where you have two controls, one set of T1s eating LC, one eating LF for the 6 month period, and then two sets, one that starts on LC and switches to LF, the other doing the opposite. Each has a month initiation and acclimatisation period into their eating type, two months eating that way, then a month change over period, and a further two months undertaking the opposite approach.

I'd be intrigued by the outcome.
 
Engineer88 said:
Thanks @azure but I'm not interested in running or any high intensity sport, I quite like being able to have a flat line (or close to) without trying to fit in shed loads of exercise just to try and eat carbs - plus it still doesn't help the brain fog I get from them. Also when I low carb I can reduce hypos significantly and deal with any lower bg in a much better way, I don't turn into an eating machine.
Click to expand...

Oh, no - quite! I won't be running any marathons myself!! It was the insulin sensitivity fat/carb thing that was interesting. Please don't think I'm some super marathon runner! : D
 
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