Type 2 insulin control

BrianTheElder

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Note: Applies to T2 only
Zoe Harcombe published a blog post today with some very interesting points (as usual).
The bit that got my attention was this.
What does work?
The saying “eat less/do more” sounds so simple, it’s just a shame that it doesn’t work. There is an equally simple little phrase, which has the benefit of being right. Weight is not about eating less and/or doing more. Weight is about Storing fat and Un-Storing fat.
To lose weight, we need to stop Storing fat and start Un-Storing fat. To stop storing fat, we need to switch off insulin. To start Un-Storing fat, we need to enable glucagon. (Explanations for the roles of insulin and glucagon are in Ref 7). Note – we cannot switch glucagon on – we cannot force the breakdown of body fat (not easily anyway) – but we can create the right environment whereby glucagon is able to do its work.
The three most important ways to switch off insulin are i) Stop grazing: constant eating will keep insulin active and will keep us in an energy/fat storing mode. ii) Manage carb intake: every time we eat anything with a carb content (or a protein content to a lesser extent), we activate insulin. iii) Use the right fuel: I shared a photo with the ingredients in a Weight Watchers chocolate brownie and asked what on earth the body’s response to such a chemical cocktail would likely be (Ref 8).
ONLY once insulin has been switched off is it even possible for glucagon to break down body fat (which is what weight loss actually is). Once insulin has been switched off, the two most important ways to encourage/enable glucagon are i) Limit alcohol: the calories in alcohol don’t count, but alcohol impairs the operation of glucagon and can thus impair the breakdown of body fat. ii) Move: being active in some way signals a requirement for fuel and requires energy to be put back into the blood stream. The first energy to be used up will be any glucose stored. Once this is running low, the body will turn to fat. The lower the carb intake, the sooner the body will need to look for fat to breakdown to fuel activity.
It started me thinking about whether I have always produced too much insulin and whether this has led to increased insulin resistance and hence T2. ie, a chicken and egg situation. My current fasting insulin is still comparatively high, despite being on a keto diet, and I put weight on remarkably quickly without strict diet control.
Anyway, the advice on lowering insulin is very sound, I think.
 

Guzzler

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I do like Dr. Harcombe's no nonsense, non patronising approach. The quote you posted is clear and succint, thank you for posting.
 
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Bluetit1802

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Anyway, the advice on lowering insulin is very sound, I think.

Yes, you are absolutely right to think that. This is why a low carb diet with added fats works wonders for most of us. The lower the carbs, the better. It is also why intermittent fasting is a good idea as it gives the pancreas a good long rest with nothing to trigger a high insulin response. It is also why prescribing certain diabetes medications that force the pancreas to produce extra insulin is counter-productive and nonsensical if that person already has normal or high insulin levels.

Carbs trigger the biggest insulin response - and most fruit is up there at the top of the chart. Butter on the other hand has no insulin response. Insulin is the fat carrying hormone, so the less of it we have circulating, the better. High circulating insulin is also rather inflammatory, so will never help our vascular/arterial system to be healthy, and will never help with stuff like arthritis and other inflammatory diseases.
 
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bulkbiker

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The third method of course is not to eat.. Which is why Jason Fung has such success with his fasting regimes.. I know that Zoe says stop grazing but obviously fasting is the ultimate end game.
 
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Jenny15

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It started me thinking about whether I have always produced too much insulin and whether this has led to increased insulin resistance and hence T2. ie, a chicken and egg situation.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I found this article helpful for explaining it:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/47101698.php

Of course I admit that I need to lose weight, and I will do so, as I recover from serious burnout.

But, knowing my genes played more of a role than I had previously thought, did help reduce some of the beating-myself-up.
 
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ickihun

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I found low carb not high fat a tool to reshape my body and get rid of my huge muscular legs and arms.
Shame my core muscles were included thou.
My motto in life is.....
"SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO GO FORWARD"
Yes this includes breaking the IR circle BUT it has to be constantly achieved for it to be worth anything to we T2s.
Ive found my weight loss solution but no benefit if not a constant in my life.
My head is ready for a new digestive system (bariatric surgery) and in my mind their is no other way forward for me than low carb and not high fat until I hit my weight loss goal. I will then add more fat but definitely not more carbs.
Weight loss without surgery for me is a task I can receive help with as it's such a big haul over of diet, regime and assertiveness.
I will use my new found assertiveness on telling Mr ickihun and others that I CANNOT eat like a none type2 diabetic ever again. The relapses are very damaging.
A very interesting few days of getting my assertive point across at home is on the cards. :wideyed:
 

rab5

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I found low carb not high fat a tool to reshape my body and get rid of my huge muscular legs and arms.
Shame my core muscles were included thou.
My motto in life is.....
"SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO GO FORWARD"
Yes this includes breaking the IR circle BUT it has to be constantly achieved for it to be worth anything to we T2s.
Ive found my weight loss solution but no benefit if not a constant in my life.
My head is ready for a new digestive system (bariatric surgery) and in my mind their is no other way forward for me than low carb and not high fat until I hit my weight loss goal. I will then add more fat but definitely not more carbs.
Weight loss without surgery for me is a task I can receive help with as it's such a big haul over of diet, regime and assertiveness.
I will use my new found assertiveness on telling Mr ickihun and others that I CANNOT eat like a none type2 diabetic ever again. The relapses are very damaging.
A very interesting few days of getting my assertive point across at home is on the cards. :wideyed:

I don’t understand that

Are you saying low carb wasted away your muscle? But not fat. If you went low carb did you replace it with protein?
 
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BrianTheElder

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I think you have hit the nail on the head. I found this article helpful for explaining it:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/47101698.php

Of course I admit that I need to lose weight, and I will do so, as I recover from serious burnout.

But, knowing my genes played more of a role than I had previously thought, did help reduce some of the beating-myself-up.
Hi @Jenny15
What I was pondering was, if the pancreas can under-produce insulin, is it also possible that it can over-produce insulin, causing excessive fat storage and insulin resistance? That is my chicken and egg puzzle.
But I do agree that genes play a role in this, producing different body types.
 
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ickihun

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I don’t understand that

Are you saying low carb wasted away your muscle? But not fat. If you went low carb did you replace it with protein?
I replaced with lean protein and restricted veg. (It's a good idea to limit your intake of Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, turnips, and bok choy, because research suggests digesting these vegetables may block the thyroid's ability to utilize iodine, which is essential for normal thyroid function.)

I have huge fat stores in my body which needs using up first before adding dietary fat.... Just until ideal weight.
I only lost weight on good bg levels and no added fat.
Yes it reduced my muscle mass too, which in turn help with my huge IR problem.

Awaiting bariatric surgery to support this way of eating til I'm ideal weight.
Ive had a lifetime of adding weight so I won't struggle to keep from starvation and I'm more nutrient aware now, than I've ever been.
My body is currently needing a reset without the hunger and other hormones confusing things.
I'm now awaiting a surgical appointment. I'm ready to get really started.
Ive tried every diet. I need a new digestive system not another chat with a dietician.
Low carb is the only way to support type2 diabetes high bgs... dietary. For life!!!!
 
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rab5

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I replaced with lean protein and restricted veg. (It's a good idea to limit your intake of Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, turnips, and bok choy, because research suggests digesting these vegetables may block the thyroid's ability to utilize iodine, which is essential for normal thyroid function.)

I have huge fat stores in my body which needs using up first before adding dietary fat.... Just until ideal weight.
I only lost weight on good bg levels and no added fat.
Yes it reduced my muscle mass too, which in turn help with my huge IR problem.

Awaiting bariatric surgery to support this way of eating til I'm ideal weight.
Ive had a lifetime of adding weight so I won't struggle to keep from starvation and I'm more nutrient aware now, than I've ever been.
My body is currently needing a reset without the hunger and other hormones confusing things.
I'm now awaiting a surgical appointment. I'm ready to get really started.
Ive tried every diet. I need a new digestive system not another chat with a dietician.
Low carb is the only way to support type2 diabetes high bgs... dietary. For life!!!!

Have you tried fasting