Type 2 on insulin help needed

[DCUKMod]

DCUKMOD. Thank you for your comment and I find it very reliable.

Some persons can find a way to manage DM, but there are a lot of people who cannot control DM properly.

In the Biochemistry postulates that our body in rest use 24 Cal /Kg body mass, under ordinary conditions.

This is how BMR is calculated on a simple way.

Calculating the real BMR is more complicated. BMR depend on the body composition.

On the top of the BMR, humans need additional energy for POSTPRANDIAL THERMOGENESIS. It is typical about 10% of the BMR. Digestion, absorption and storage of the fat require about 2% to 4% of the fat energy. Conversion of Carbohydrate to storage fat requires about 24% of the energy content of the Carbohydrate. In the fitness places there are an equipment to measure the BMR.

If the person has a high insulin resistance, then the carbs (glucose) stay in the blood vessels for a long time.

If the glucose is above 5.5 mmol/l then in the tissues where there is no need for insulin the glucose to enter the cells, as the kidney, nerves and the retina there will start the Polyol Pathway. You can read about this Polyol Pathway on English Wikipedia.

The polyol Pathway can result in damage of this tissues as Retinopathy, Neuropathy and Nephropathy.

This is the reason why the glucose levels must be very low.

High insulin resistance and intake of carbs can be controlled on two ways.

You can use more insulin and the result will be the glucose can be converted to fat and will be deposited in the adipose tissues OR

You can after 1.5 hour make physical activities to bring the glucose level low and to catabolize the glucose.

Low Carbo diet is starvation and is not healthy diet. The person catabolizes FAT and the levels of plasma free fatty acids rise and the liver turns fatty acids into ketone bodies. These are the same changes as in starvation. VLDL will be elevated because the oversupply of fatty acids promotes triglyceride synthesis in the liver. The rise in VLDL contributes to the accelerated development of Atherosclerosis and Coronary heart disease in Diabetes.

I do not advocate for my approach to DM control, but I am very serious concerned about the missing attempt from the healthy persons to instruct the DM patient’s correctly

Hello there - could you post a link to your statements about calories per kilo, please? I weight 48.5kg (based my calculation on 49 for ease), but eat about 2500 calories a day to mark time, regarding my weight, so 24cal per kilo is way off for me. I am also reading more and more that the calories in/calories out hypothesis is flawed. If you would like to read more of the, Zoe Harcombe has written about it quite extensively.

My Low Carb diet is certainly not a starvation diet. For a female of 160cm ans 48.5 kg, eating 2500 calories a day on last count up, it would be hard to categorise that as starvation. I don't chase nutritional ketosis, but I daresay I do have blood ketones from time to time, but those are from nutrritional ketosis, certainly not from ketoacidosis, which is a totally diffeent and very dangerous condition. Yes, I am very slim, but I am not starving, by any stretch of the imagination.

Regarding lipids, have you done any reading of Professor Ken Sikaris's work at all, or viewed any of his presentations on YouTube? I find his way of presenting and explaining lipids and so on to be very good. I learned a great deal from him.

From a personal perspective, I am in a happy position of not having to take exogenous insulin, or any diabetes medications for that matter, but from my reading, I understand that whilst it can be a very successful treatment for T2d, for those with insulin resistance (sadly very common in T2), it can lead to quite high doses and sometimes weight gain.

I'm pleased you have founf a way to keep your own condition in a place you favour, but as you can tell from my responses, I'm not with you on the approach, or even on some of your personal understanding. My understanding, in a few areas, is quite, quite different.

 

[luna50]

DCUKMOD. Thank you for your comment

The documentation for my statement You can find it in the scientifically literature:

“PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY” on page nr.: 562!

By: Gerhard Meisenberg and William H. Simmons, 2nd. Edition

I know, especially You “Moderators” are very sensitive if someone talk against LC-diet.

You recommend this diet to every person who has DM T2. It is wrong.

I wrote where this diet is OK.

It is by PREDIABETES and on the beginning of DM T2.

The persons bodies are very little insulin resistant and the body can manage this unnecessarily starvation.

You can like my statement or not, but it is truth.

I do not need a better foundation for LC diet, because my knowledge is from science and not from particular advertising commercial interest.

Have a nice day and stay in live and STOP to THREATEN me without reason.

@luna50

If you are going to make wild statements (for instance claiming that a low carb way of eating is starvation and unhealthy), then please provide reputable scientific references to support your claims.

If you are unable to provide these reputable scientific references, then do not make such claims. If you continue to do so, your posts will be deleted for unsubstantiated scaremongering.

You may be interested in furthering your knowledge on the subject, to get a better understanding of why so many members of this forum flourish on the way of eating you think is ‘starvation’. I suggest the Voleck and Phinney book The Art And Science Of Low Carbohydrate Living to start you off. Jason Fung’s works (books and online articles, lectures and blog) will also give you a better foundation.

Post edited by moderator to remove unsubstantiated claim about low carb diet.

 

[luna50]

DCUKMOD. Thank you for your comment

The link is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

The 24 Cal / Kg weight is a THUMB RULE and it is by REST. You must all day stay in the bed and do nothing.

It is an ease way to lose weight.

You can find this in: “PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY” on page nr.: 552!

By: Gerhard Meisenberg and William H. Simmons, 2nd. Edition.

You eat 2500 Cal and it is about twice of Your BMR.

If You have a physical activity then You must eat more.

PS- Sorry I have read wrong the comment from Bruneria. I read it as that is from You.

Post edited by moderator to remove disparaging comments about another member.

Hello there - could you post a link to your statements about calories per kilo, please? I weight 48.5kg (based my calculation on 49 for ease), but eat about 2500 calories a day to mark time, regarding my weight, so 24cal per kilo is way off for me. I am also reading more and more that the calories in/calories out hypothesis is flawed. If you would like to read more of the, Zoe Harcombe has written about it quite extensively.

My Low Carb diet is certainly not a starvation diet. For a female of 160cm ans 48.5 kg, eating 2500 calories a day on last count up, it would be hard to categorise that as starvation. I don't chase nutritional ketosis, but I daresay I do have blood ketones from time to time, but those are from nutrritional ketosis, certainly not from ketoacidosis, which is a totally diffeent and very dangerous condition. Yes, I am very slim, but I am not starving, by any stretch of the imagination.

Regarding lipids, have you done any reading of Professor Ken Sikaris's work at all, or viewed any of his presentations on YouTube? I find his way of presenting and explaining lipids and so on to be very good. I learned a great deal from him.

From a personal perspective, I am in a happy position of not having to take exogenous insulin, or any diabetes medications for that matter, but from my reading, I understand that whilst it can be a very successful treatment for T2d, for those with insulin resistance (sadly very common in T2), it can lead to quite high doses and sometimes weight gain.

I'm pleased you have founf a way to keep your own condition in a place you favour, but as you can tell from my responses, I'm not with you on the approach, or even on some of your personal understanding. My understanding, in a few areas, is quite, quite different.

 

[Brunneria]

DCUKMOD. Thank you for your comment

The documentation for my statement You can find it in the scientifically literature:

“PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY” on page nr.: 562!

By: Gerhard Meisenberg and William H. Simmons, 2nd. Edition

I know, especially You “Moderators” are very sensitive if someone talk against LC-diet.

You recommend this diet to every person who has DM T2. It is wrong.

I wrote where this diet is OK.

It is by PREDIABETES and on the beginning of DM T2.

The persons bodies are very little insulin resistant and the body can manage this unnecessarily starvation.

The people who are serious affected by DM T2 it is the way to suicide.

You can like my statement or not, but it is truth.

I do not need a better foundation for LC diet, because my knowledge is from science and not from particular advertising commercial interest.

Have a nice day and stay in live and STOP to THREATEN me without reason.

Hi @luna50

The reference you gave is to a student medical text published in 2006.
I strongly suggest that you update your information sources.
Understanding of human metabolism in regard to type 2 diabetes has progressed leaps and bounds since then, and much of the information you have quoted (for instance that humans need 130g of dietary carbohydrate) is disproven and obsolete. Your statement that people starve without carbohydrates has never been accurate, and I would dismiss any information source that makes that statement. If they get that wrong, what else are they getting wrong?

I suggest that you read up on gluconeogenesis, as well as the subjects I recommended to you in my last post.

You are welcome to express your opinions, provided you supply references and are willing to debate them in a polite fashion. If not, then your posts will be deleted, for the reasons I gave above.

Edited to add:
I also suggest that you familiarise yourself with the forum rules (there is a link to them in my signature). Personal attacks and insults are not permitted on this forum. Posts which break the forum rules are subject to moderation, whether by myself or another moderator.

 

[Member496333]

I’ve been eating less than 20g daily carbohydrate for eighteen months, and less than 5g daily for two months. Never been stronger or healthier. I think I’ll postpone choosing a coffin for the time being

It goes without saying that we are all unique and have different views and expectations of our own health, but it is most definitely not accurate to assert that all humans will die if they don’t eat carbohydrate. In fact it’s complete balderdash.

 

[therower]

Wow !!!!!! Can’t believe how this thread has been derailed as it has.
Surely the OP will have lost any confidence in this forum.
Is this really the best WE can do? It’s embarrassing to witness some the posts above.

 

[NaijaChick]

There was an old person of Dean,
Who dined on one pea, and one bean;
For he said, 'More than that,
Would make me too fat,'
That cautious old person of Dean.

This Forum is dominated with postulations for curative treatment of Diabetes Type 2 by “Low carbo method”. For that I can say: Latin “ Quot homines tot sententiae”

Diabetes T2 is not represented by every person on the same way.

LC method is effective by the persons on prediabetic and the persons on the beginning for DM T2.

The treatment for these persons is with diet, exercise, Metformin and Sulphonylureas drugs.

The DM T2 treatment with Insulin and metformin can be difficult to control it effective.

The problem is the missing knowledge by the persons who have DM T2 and the useless explanation from the medical staff. NO one of this medical person explain exactly how to control the illness. All explanations are very superficially. Most people think if they take insulin, then all problems with DM T2 are away.

The intake of exogen insulin depend of the grade of insulin resistance.

I can tell You about my way how I control my DM T2.

I have very high insulin resistance. I take on the morning 15 IE- Insulin Tresiba (degludec), the best insulin on the marked, and 4 IE – insulin Novo Rapid and 1.5 g Metformin. My BG on the morning is from 4.0 to 5.0 mmol/L.

On the morning I eat 2 egg and one bread with butter and honey. (Ordinary office job)

On 12.00 my BG is 4.00 mmol/l and I eat a moderate meal (I eat what I like to eat, no diet meals and no LC- meals). After 1.5 hour I measure my BG. Normally the BG is about 10 mmol/l. After that I take my Electrical Bicycle and drive about 10 to 15 kilometers. (You can RUN if you prefer that) All that take about 0.5 hour. My BG after that is only 4.5 mmol/l. By 18.00 hour I eat normal meal and do not make exercise. On the morning my BG is 4.5 – 5.0 mmol/l.

If You control your BG only with insulin, without exercise, then you must take more insulin and the carbs will not be catabolized but they will be deposit in your adipose tissues. It will be difficult to control your weight.

If You are an obese person, then You can use Insulin Tresiba (degludec) mixed with Victoza. You will have 100% positive results for los of weight. Your “doctor” must be involved in that.

For all this the start point is to find what is your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate).

You body use 24 Cal / kg weight and if you like to have a weight of 60 Kg, then you can multiplicate 24 x 60 = 1440 Cal / day. The composition of This daily energy of 1440 Cal is: 50% must be from carbs, 30 % from fat ad 20 % from protein.

The carbs and the proteins have 4 Cal / gram and the fat has 9 Cal/gram.

You MUST eat carbs because your body need the energy molecule ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate).

This energy molecules are used by every biochemical process in your body.

You can read on the English Wikipedia about ATP and Metformin. It is very important to understand how this molecule works in your body.

Ask me for all what you wish and you will get always a true answer.

Thank you so much!!!!!!! This information has been useful.

 

[gillytee31]

I have a disagreement with the section about controlling BG only with insulin. I have been on insulin for 3 years and cannot exercise because of medical reasons, yet am still managing to lose weight. I have lost 23 lbs since beginning of January.