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understanding spikes

I guess from reading all the previous posts on this page that my spikes of 15.8 & 17.5 2hours after my lunch are really not that good. I am not really sure what type of diabetic i am( possible MODY) and neither is my consultant but if i increase my lunchtime dose of insulin by only 1 or 2 units i hypo in the afternoon. Any ideas anyone??? P.S by the way above readings are after 1 wholemeal sub roll
 
zoeeveritt said:
I guess from reading all the previous posts on this page that my spikes of 15.8 & 17.5 2hours after my lunch are really not that good.
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:shock: :shock: :shock:


I think the wholemeal sub roll is your answer. Your diet is the problem and you need to reduce your carbohydrate intake to reduce your sugar readings, whatever kind of diabetic you are.

Welcome to the forums, take a look around, ask questions. Get those readings down!
 
I keep trying to explain British understatement to Americans, and failing.

You are obviously a master of it.

Not good? :-D

Here is a little light reading for you: Research Connecting Organ Damage with Blood Sugar Level

Possibly you would get better results by reducing your carbs at lunch a little at a time instead of increasing the insulin.
 
For our UK residents the BG level figures are slightly different to Alan's figures.
These are the guideline figures for aT2 since Feb 2009.

Fasting (waking)..................between 4 - 7 mmol/l.
2 hrs after meals.................no more than 8.5 mmol/l.

Stay within those numbers and you won't go far wrong. Obviously the lower the better.Ken.
 
Yes - that's a good starting point - I agree.

I'm a Type 2 and since I started testing and managing the amount of carbohydrate that I eat - and at what time of the day - I'm now working to and managing to achieve the following:

Fasting .................................less than 5.5 mmol/l
1 hr after meals.................less than 8.0 mmol/l.

By the way, I still eat quite a lot of carbohydrate - hardly any in the morning because it takes my spike to 10+ whether it be porridge, cereal or bread - some at lunch time (mainly bread, rice or pasta) - and quite a lot in the evenings when it doesn't seem to do anything much to me in the way of spikes.

These levels may be considered as a much tighter standard to work to but I'm having no difficulty doing it. My HbA1c has come down from 9.4% > 8.5% > 6.8% > 5.7% > 5.5% and 5.3% last time I had it tested.

I was diagnosed nearly nine years ago in the very early stages but - as far as I know - I'm still complication free after all that time. I'm trying hard to keep it that way.

Best Wishes - John
 
I've never seen any of my readings as high as that even 1 hour after eating. I think that you can safely take it that they are "really not that good". However, I have no knowledge of your type of diabetes.
 
cugila said:
2 hrs after meals.................no more than 8.5 mmol/l.
Click to expand...
Personally, I'm not happy to accept this particular point as an advisable UK standard that will help me to keep complication free. I want to be lower and sooner after eating than two hours. Moreover, I've found it to be quite easily possible in my particular case.
 
belinda_b said:
I try, and usually manage to keep bg levels under the guidelines I read on here....somewhere...

Under 8 - 1hr after meals, and under 6.5 - 2hrs after meals.
Fasting (wake up) bg is usually 5 - 5.3
Click to expand...
Hi Belinda - They look like sensible targets to me! Best Wishes - John
 

Hi,
you really don't give enough info to give much help and its a bit buried in a thread which hasn't a lot of relevance to your problem.
Yes your peaks are too high, but any suggestions are dependent upon the type of insulin regime that you use. For example, if you are using a basal/bolus regime one thought is that maybe your basal needs adjusting downwards , and your bolus better matched to your food.
Perhaps you could start another thread with some details about the type of insulins you take and when, and when the lows are occurring,. Then more people may spot your problem and be able to help.
 
i dont think personally that anyone can fully understand a spike i have been looking very closely at this now for a few month the over day a non diabetic freind of mine and my son agreed to be my guinea pigs my sons bs were 7.3 before he had eaten and my freinds was 8.6 1 hour after he had eaten both of theese two especially my son have been tested for diabeates recently and his hsblc was 5.2 i do agree that we have to be carefull on what we eat and watch the carbs but after observing there bs my own personal view is that no one will ever know what a bad spike is you can only set your own personal goals maybe leting it go up a littlesay 8.5 to 8.9 within a hour as long as it comes back down is only normal like i said this my own opinion others will feel different
 
If they have not actually been diagnosed yet, I think that both your son and your friend may need to see better doctors.

A pre-meal reading of 7.3 is not non-diabetic. A competent doctor seeing that repeated as a fasting reading would diagnose full diabetes regardless of his A1c. Similarly that postmeal of 8.6 for your friend is cause for concern.

As to what may be desirable targets, here is a little light reading for you: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
 
I had a spike this morning - 9.4mml :shock: :shock: :shock:

Breakfast was late today, aruond 11am. This spike was about 1 hour after breakfast, which was x2 Cauldron Cumberland veggie sausages, fried mushrooms, 1 vine ripened tomato (fried) and an egg. This is a normal Sunday morning brunch, except it is usually a little earlier in the day.

I felt quite hungry when my sugar was high and had that awful fuzzy-headedness that I rarely get these days, since I reduced my carbs. I also confess to having something else to eat at the same time - greek yoghurt and raspberries :roll:

I tested again about 40 minutes later and it was 8.6mml. Now, 2 hours after that later I'm back to 5.9mml, which is more acceptable. But I have felt tired and hungry since the spike.

Could this spike be a combined liver dump and post meal increase?
 
Hi Spiral.

Have you any idea what your waking Bg was or even just before your breakfast. If you were high to start with that might explain it ?

Not sure what goes into a veggie sausage so to me it all seems fairly normal ? Shouldn't have spiked like that ?


Ken.
 

At 10.12 this morning I was 5.7. I'd been up for about an hour and had only drunk water.

The packaging tells me that there 8 carbs per sausage (of which sugar 0.7g). Although a closer look at the listed ingedients tells me that it also includes tapioca starch and wholemeal rusk :shock:

I did get a bit dehydrated yeasterday and I don't want to go to the same place again today :roll: I know I witter on about people not drinking enough :roll: I know what happens because I do it myself sometimes.
 
Oh dear.

Veggie Sausages might not be all they are cracked up to be then Spiral ? 16+ carbs is not something I could handle well. Try eating just one and see what difference that makes to your Bg levels.

Trial and error I think ?

Ken.
 
I think I need to compare all the veggie sausages I usually buy as I think Cauldron may have recently changed the recipe - the packaging is different anyway.

I had just one yesterday and I didn't seem to spike from that.

I think this may be the explaination - the ones I had been eating previously were Quorn based, which I seem to recall were half the carb content.

Thank you!
 
Hi everyone

I have been T1 for about 15 years and often get really frustrated with 'unexplained' morning spikes after breakfast [I eat the same breakfast every morning ( 1 piece of Squirrely bread, approx. 17 grams carbs, 5 grams fibre, 5 grams protein), so find this mind-boggling]. I have learned to give way more Humolog for this breakfast than I normally do for the same amount of carbs at a different point in of time in the day...

Anyway, I finally talked to my endocrinologist about it and she said this happens to lots of diabetics (Type 1s anyway, I'm not sure about Type 2s) and has been termed the "dawn effect" Simply, when we wake up, our bodies react to the overnight release of hormones (cortisol, the 'stress hormone,' in particular) and this bumps up blood sugar. Check out this site for more information: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dawn-effect/AN01213

For me, this explanation helped me to realize that, while we can try our best, we just cannot predict/ control everything. But finally having some sort of an understanding of the cause of this anomaly was really reassuring.
 
Hi Ww.

The Dawn Phenomenon usually is what affects your waking or fasting Bg levels. See explanation here which I have posted many times. It affects everybody - Diabetic or not.

DAWN PHENOMENON
Everyone, diabetic or not, exhibits some Dawn Phenomenon. It is a natural part of our bodies' circadian rhythms. Some have said it is the way our ancestors had the strength to rise and slay a wooly behemoth for breakfast.

Since most of us fast while sleeping, with teenagers a possible exception, our bodies use stored energy during sleep. The body uses all three macro-nutrients (carbohydrates, proteins, and fats) to store energy.

The most easily used is the storage medium of carbohydrates, called glycogen. Glycogen is made from glucose, and is stored in the liver and muscles. Since it is basically nothing more than a complex matrix of glucose, it is easy for the body to store and use, something the body does all day long. The technical term for the act of creating and storing glycogen is glycogenesis. When the body calls for the conversion of glycogen back to glucose it is called glycogenolysis.

Another macro-nutrient that is available to be converted to glucose is protein. Most of us think of our protein as being stored in muscle, but the body has protective mechanisms to make muscle wasting its last choice. One of the most useful and readily available sources of protein storage is in blood components, i.e., albumin (plasma). The body uses a process performed in the liver to convert amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, into glucose. The name for this process is gluconeogenesis, literally "the creation of new glucose".

So, what does all this have to do with a high fasting BG? Overnight, usually between 4am and 11am, your body releases some hormones. These are Growth Hormone (GH) from the anterior pituitary gland, cortisol from the adrenal cortex, glucagon from your pancreatic alpha-cells, and epinephrine (adrenalin). These hormones cause an increase in insulin resistance, raising your BG. In addition, these hormones trigger glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis, adding stored or new glucose to your bloodstream.


Have you any idea what your waking(fasting) Bg level was prior to your breakfast ?
Your say your levels rose after your breakfast which was around 17+ carbs. These would be converted into glucose and probably have contributed to the spike you mention. Many of us cannot tolerate such things as bread of any sort, incidentally what on earth is 'squirrely' bread ?? If I eat bread it elevated my Bg levels alarmingly. Of course as a T1 you are able to cover this with your Insulin.

Ken.
 
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