Upset with doctors appointment

JPS said:

What I don't understand is why being diagnosed as diabetic makes people stop eating excess sugar and start exercising, unless hundreds o thousands o folk are laying about eating sugar until illness starts.

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You don't seem to understand much, either you are being deliberately obtuse or you are trolling and just want to start an argument .which is it.

Could you please tell me by the way what in essence is different between your medication and theirs I expect you would demand a prescription if you needed insulin would you not. Or do you go without it.

My doctor gives me all the messages I need, as for being a troll I haven't insulted anyone but have been called things by yourself

JPS said:

My doctor gives me all the messages I need, as for being a troll I haven't insulted anyone but have been called things by yourself

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That is the trouble.. Lifestyles need to change for the whole population...

It seems that people don't give a hoot and will rely on meds when there is a lot of self help available no matter whether T1, 2, MODY or RH etc.

donnellysdogs said:

That is the trouble.. Lifestyles need to change for the whole population...

It seems that people don't give a hoot and will rely on meds when there is a lot of self help available no matter whether T1, 2, MODY or RH etc.

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Could you share how

JPS said:

Yes,it's not a game some people have to test upto ten times a day and still have big problems with control,popping a couple o tablets is a lot of peoples dream.

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Can I ask you something? Not being antagonistic mind, a genuine request. As a type 1, how much do you really know about type 2, apart from what you have heard about, whether it is on telly, in the papers etc? Did you realise that the healthy stuff that most are told to eat puts their blood sugars into the stratosphere? That it isn't just about sugar and pop, but bread, cereal, rice, potatoes, pasta, fruit.. did you know that there are many who have become diabetic because they have had to take steroids for medical conditions (check the documented evidence if you think I'm fibbing)? That there are others who have syndromes (like my daughter, diagnosed type 2 at 16 years old, on insulin since she was a year or two older) who will develop type 2?

What you seem to say, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that if type 2's hadn't been eating a shedload of sugary **** in the first place, then why would cutting it out now make any difference - hence it really is their fault for eating it.
Well, apart from the many examples I have given, something comes to mind. I know that type 1's can eat what they want (in theory) and bolus for it. ok, so does that mean it is wise to survive on a complete menu of junk food **** and take large doses of insulin, possibly ever increasing ones, to compensate? Erratic levels, maybe serious highs, dropping to hypo alert..should they be refused extra strips because they are being irresponsible, purely on the ground that they might suffer a dangerous hypo ?Probably not. It's the same with us, type 2's in all our forms. For whatever reason we find ourselves with type 2, isn't the important thing that the sense of responsibility is there, that we do not ask for test strips so we can test, then demolish a chip supper, jam roly poly and a 2 litre bottle of coke? That it is part of the knowledge that must be accumulated for a person to understand exactly what sends their levels high (2 slices of wholemeal toast sent mine up to 12.6 when I was diagnosed) and alter their food intake accordingly.

So to me, it is **** right that people do "pester" for test strips. The majority are self funded, few receive them. And I feel it's wrong.

My mother's type 2,she takes a couple o tablets a day and that's as far as she let's it affect her lifestyle

JPS said:

My mother's type 2,she takes a couple o tablets a day and that's as far as she let's it affect her lifestyle

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Then I hope her diabetes is well controlled. If type 2 takes "a couple o tablets" (usually Metformin) and ignores their diet and the effect of carbs thereof, they are usually nasty surprises in store.
See the thing is, the NHS often (not always) aren't especially interested in us. But to be blunt, we can get neuropathy, we can lose our sight, we can have kidney failure, and we can lose our legs.
For your info (and you didn't respond to my question about how much you actually know about type 2), Metformin lowers the BG by hardly anything, think it's by about 1mmol. It doesn't work like a bolus insulin dose. Lifestyle is an overrated pastime when suffering neuropathy or losing limbs from uncontrolled diabetes.

ladybird64 said:

Then I hope her diabetes is well controlled. If type 2 takes "a couple o tablets" (usually Metformin) and ignores their diet and the effect of carbs thereof, they are usually nasty surprises in store.
See the thing is, the NHS often (not always) aren't especially interested in us. But to be blunt, we can get neuropathy, we can lose our sight, we can have kidney failure, and we can lose our legs.
For your info (and you didn't respond to my question about how much you actually know about type 2), Metformin lowers the BG by hardly anything, think it's by about 1mmol. It doesn't work like a bolus insulin dose. Lifestyle is an overrated pastime when suffering neuropathy or losing limbs from uncontrolled diabetes.

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I don't differentiate between type 1 or 2,but of course losing legs and.eyes is the main worry and not death I've tested her 3 times in last eighteen months all being under 6 so no worries

JPS said:

Could you share how

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Just the example of this forum.

Ok we do have a lot of members but compared to how many diabetics there are... Well its hardly anybody.

Yep sure enough theres loads of people that do not come to this forum and manage well.

You only have to look at the NHS statistics though to realise how many (all types) are not reaching target figures for hba1c results.

I am one of 3 T1 diabetics that I have actually met in person. One killed himself. One is very obese but tries but does not get consistent good results due to lifestyle and one is probably classified as OTT with diabetes and good lifestyle but not stopped this person getting other critical illnesses. 1 from the 3 people gets good results.

I also went to a CCG meeting for diabetic and obese patients a while back and was shocked that only 2 out of 16 patients were getting good hba1c levels.

I know for sure that from my relatives of which only 4 out of 12 have not had cancer.. Out of the other 8 that have... Only one tries everything natural and looks at treatments, drugs, reports etc. The other 7 just accept the treatments as a cure basically...

Very few People are willing to change
Their lifestyles of driving, ready made meals, alchohol etc. People rely upon the NHS to give tablets rather than getting a push bile or walking, cooking fresh food etc and this goes also for the amount of people that expect antibiotics for a cold or cough.

There is no difference in illnesses.. Its not just diabetes. I go to a cancer therapy group and I am the only person that is willing to look at my diet, my nutrition, check I'm eating a good amount of protein etc... This is from over 50 persons... Others rely on tablets and chemo, surgery and radiotherapy.

At some point lifestyles have to be changed.

donnellysdogs said:

Just the example of this forum.

Ok we do have a lot of members but compared to how many diabetics there are... Well its hardly anybody.

Yep sure enough theres loads of people that do not come to this forum and manage well.

You only have to look at the NHS statistics though to realise how many (all types) are not reaching target figures for hba1c results.

I am one of 3 T1 diabetics that I have actually met in person. One killed himself. One is very obese but tries but does not get consistent good results due to lifestyle and one is probably classified as OTT with diabetes and good lifestyle but not stopped this person getting other critical illnesses. 1 from the 3 people gets good results.

I also went to a CCG meeting for diabetic and obese patients a while back and was shocked that only 2 out of 16 patients were getting good hba1c levels.

I know for sure that from my relatives of which only 4 out of 12 have not had cancer.. Out of the other 8 that have... Only one tries everything natural and looks at treatments, drugs, reports etc. The other 7 just accept the treatments as a cure basically...

Very few People are willing to change
Their lifestyles of driving, ready made meals, alchohol etc. People rely upon the NHS to give tablets rather than getting a push bile or walking, cooking fresh food etc and this goes also for the amount of people that expect antibiotics for a cold or cough.

There is no difference in illnesses.. Its not just diabetes. I go to a cancer therapy group and I am the only person that is willing to look at my diet, my nutrition, check I'm eating a good amount of protein etc... This is from over 50 persons... Others rely on tablets and chemo, surgery and radiotherapy.

At some point lifestyles have to be changed.

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I'm not against the NHS. I have done a lot of work with NHS and patients to try and improve things for both. I am for the population as a whole to consider lifestyles and helping themselves.

donnellysdogs said:

I'm not against the NHS. I have done a lot of work with NHS and patients to try and improve things for both. I am for the population as a whole to consider lifestyles and helping themselves.

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I was diagnosed with secondary diabetes due to pancreatitus while leading a very active lifestyle and eating a reasonable diet,so don't know what I could do different obviously sugar in coffee and on weatabix are well in the past

Bringing this back on topic - DD, the whole point of this thread is that the OP was trying to make lifestyle changes, and enlist her doctors help in doing just that. Her request for test strips to help her has been described here as "pestering".

I fear we are losing the point of the thread.

JPS said:

My mother's type 2,she takes a couple o tablets a day and that's as far as she let's it affect her lifestyle

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Unfortunately that IS the experience of millions...

JPS said:

I was diagnosed with secondary diabetes due to pancreatitus while leading a very active lifestyle and eating a reasonable diet,so don't know what I could do different obviously sugar in coffee and on weatabix are well in the past

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T1D is a totally different condition. It is a result of beta cells destruction.

T2D is often due to beta cells dysfunction as a result of diet/lifestyle, which recent studies demonstrates that it may still be reversed/restored.

kokhongw said:

T1D is a totally different condition. It is a result of beta cells destruction.

T2D is often due to beta cells dysfunction as a result of diet/lifestyle, which recent studies demonstrates that it may still be reversed/restored.

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What point you trying to make

JPS said:

What point you trying to make

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Maybe the point is that you have mentioned having an active lifestyle and having a healthy diet before your diagnosis - neither of these would have made any difference to your diagnosis, for the reasons mentioned by @kokhongw .

JPS said:

What point you trying to make

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Actually it is in response to "What I don't understand is why being diagnosed as diabetic makes people stop eating excess sugar and start exercising, unless hundreds o thousands o folk are laying about eating sugar until illness starts."

Simply that T1D condition is totally uncontrollable because the real causes for triggering autoimmune coniditions are not known. There are possible causes...eg early childhood antibiotic uses etc...but nothing really definite.

However for most T2D dietary choices and lifestyle is a major contributing factor. And it often take a diabetic diagnosis to have the severity of the condition sink in. So lifestyle changes after diagnosis will makes sense and make a difference for millions. Unfortunately current medical guideline do not aim for full recovery...they only aim to avoid inconvenient death due to hypoglycemia.

Even for T1D carbs reduction as per Dr Bernstein guidelines on the law of small numbers makes managing the condition much easier.

But so many people don't change and just rely on GPs and meds. We persons that care enough to reallywamt to get hba1cs in target are not everybody whetber T1 or T2 etc.

donnellysdogs said:

But so many people don't change and just rely on GPs and meds. We persons that care enough to reallywamt to get hba1cs in target are not everybody whetber T1 or T2 etc.

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Rather it is primarily because many have been misled to believe that
1) HbA1c of 7% is good enough control for risk vs benefits of CVD. And in their experience, progression of the condition IS inevitable.
2) Normalization of HbA1c of < 5% is not safe/possible for T2D and requires extraordinary will power.

But if people understand how easily and safely normalization AND restoration MAY be achieved thru simple carbs reduction AND intermittent fasting, the outcome and choices MAY be very different.

What has been difficult is for people to overcome the general fear of hunger and dietary fats, that most believe will cause more harm inspite of all the immediate benefits we have seen in this forum and elsewhere...

I used to eat one meal a day.

We are told to have 3 meals a day and snacks inbetween if you have a mixed bolus insulin or a child or even adults...

Now, I've been told to have 6 small meals a day to try and ease my atomach coping with a salad!! (One meal a day as was- with nuts n 2 sq of choc).

Now, I have got used to 6 small meals a day.. But they are like 13 balls of melon with yogurt, a very small bowl of soup etc....

Now I've basically got to have some more tests on my stomach and bowels etc I do have to basically starve for 48hours... Horrified!!! My eating habits in 6 months have become normal to me...6 small meals a day and after 30+ years of one meal a day I have got used to the 6 meals.....

From this I question though the advice to people on 3 meals a day and snacks.... People do not know what a small plate or bowl is nowadays..(My meals are on a small side plate)..
People get used to eating more.. I have!! And after just 6 months I was horrified to think of starving myself for 48 hours......I remember my parents plates (they still have them!!)- they are so much smaller than current ones.

The advice we are given is wrong about food ie fats, carbs etc..

The lifestyles have been normalised to think big for. everything....

The NHS and the govt and the commercial enterprises need to change before everybodies lifes are shortened unless reliant upon tablets and meds.

It is such a shame the doctors are reticent to learn from people that have got good hba1cs, and people that have chosen to low carb as a lifestyle.

However I was pleased to see the 6 week improve diabetes book at number 5 this week and to hear from a lady that she has lost 2st in 2 months with a further 3st to go by using the book...she just been diagnosed 8 weeks ago- but not given a meter... Hba1c tests still enough for a T2....

I just think medicine is in its infancy really. Its only been around commercially at doctors / chemists for less than a century really especially with all the drug companies. The drug companies have very expensive share prices and they are obliged to make huge profits for their share holders... Do we really expect them to find a cure for anything as they are making a lot of profit without.

Doctors are text book learners to me. They need to really look and listen to positive patients... And not condemn them for being different. Some of us rarely get good listeners..... The majority of patients who do well by not listening to their Doctors and finding their own way come away feeling **** at times just because we aren't listened to. I've only had three consultants that have really listened to me...and recognised that I'm not the normal drug taking happy patient.. I try my damndest to help my self. I've had over 25 consultants through moving so often and various illnesses and to have just 3 is a low percentage...