• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Waking higher than bedtime

H

hoolyuk

Well-Known Member
Messages
121
Dislikes
Salad
What causes this to happen? Don't think its the liver dump cause that seems to happen once i've been up a while
 
are you type 1 or 2?

It could be a number of things...

dawn phenomenon... where you blood sugar rises in the morning for no apparent reason.

night hypos... you could be bouncing from a low in your sleep, first port of call would be to lower your basal dose in the evening if you split it.

We need more information really on your diabetes and your treatment plan to really help!

But there's a couple of things there for you to mull over...
 
Thanks, as SugarlessSue says i'm type 2 [hopefully] and diet/exercise seems to be working ok so far.

Must be the dawn-phenomenon, though it'll make the practice nurse harder to convince if i cant get it under control by mid-december.....am starting to make time in mornings to have a tiny portion [by my standards] of cereal and milk, and that seems to be lessening the effect of the waking+2 hour liver dump.

I started out with an HBA1C of 10.8% which i think translates to an average BG reading of about 15 :shock:....but going by my own monitor readings i'm now down to an average BG of about 8.5
 
Hooly,

Your last post implies that you are now making time for a breakfast and that's had a positive impact on your morning figures, is that right?

If it is DP other members have reported that having a small snack before bed helps.

Regards, Tubs.
 
It seems to be having a positive effect on my 2 hour post-prandial after my 10am break [4 slices wholemeal, 4 slices ham, 2 yoghurts]...16.1, 13.5, 15.4, 13.1, 9.8 & 7.8 are the figures i have for that particular reading for this past fortnight...the latter two when i had taken a small breakfast....strange that the more you eat, the better your readings :) guess its just timing.

My average waking reading is 7.5 :( but this morning, after a light supper last night, it was 6.6
 
Hi Hooly,
Those BG numbers are far to high you need to be looking at the carbs your eating, bread can cause your BG to soar. I suggest you have a read at some of the threads regarding carbs.

Regards Graham
 
Thanks Graham, far too high is right, but i listed them in sequence and they are moving in the right direction.

The 7.8 today is ok for a two hour post prandial? I've read you should be under 10mmol by that time.
 
Somebody one here (sorry don't recall who, possible Stu?) once explained to me about the effect of the type of food consumed the previous evening - using pizza as an example ... in that I had pretty good BG readings after scoffing my once-a-month pizza treat (I'm T2 low carber) and then the following morning my BGs were higher, even though I'd eaten nothing in between times -

*I THINK* it was because the type of carbs consumed took longer to break down and then enter the bloodstream ... and partly due to the fat in pizza covering for the carbs on my initiall 2 hour PP reading ...

Just a thought ... if you have a carby dinner it may be lasting longer than you think ???
 
Hooly,

Yes I think you can say the numbers are heading in the right direction, so congratulations on your effort. Without knowing more about your typical day, I do think your portion sizes need looking at.

Have you been referred to a dietitian?

Regards, Tubs.
 
Jem said:
Just a thought ... if you have a carby dinner it may be lasting longer than you think ???
Click to expand...

Had a look at the carbs in rice, spuds and oven chips and all of them release most of their carbs slowly into the system, so the pizza example sounds good.

Had a virtually carb free week about a fortnight ago just to try it, and suffered worst "trots" i've ever had, worse even than laxatives prescribed for an enema a while back :( also a chesty head cold took a grip that particular week and i haven't shaken it off yet.
 
tubolard said:
Have you been referred to a dietitian?
Click to expand...

Have been referred to dietician and podiatrist on monday week, but i have to say that cutting out a red tonic wine i used to drink and eliminating chocolate and sweets from my diet along with 30 mins walking every day seems to be bringing down my readings quite drastically. I just hope my monitor is accurate.

Have perhaps been lucky in that my diet/lifestyle was so spectacularly bad, that these minor tweaks might be all that is required.
 
I have to say that one of the biggest changes I made upon diagnosis was practically cutting out all the obvious sugars - sweets, beer, beer, and sweets, and full-fat Coke. Additional exercise also helped. I still have the occasional glass of wine or whisky, depending on the occasion - but alcohol has largely disappeared from my life. *gulp*, *sob* :D

The other change I made was to eat regularly, breakfast, lunch and dinner. My pre-diagnosis regimen was terrible.

I don't want to disappoint you, they weren't big enough changes to bring my BG down to levels I was happy with. I did need to study how what I was eating affected my BG levels and use that information to make further changes in order to bring down my BG. Slowly but surely I'm getting there, I am also taking Metformin which also plays a part.

It's good to see that you are seeing a dietitian and relatively quickly. They will go through your food diary in more detail and perhaps make more appropriate recommendations than I can.

Regards, Tubs.
 
Tubs,

If its not too personal a question what weight were you prior to diagnosis....i was 18 stone and 6ft tall, with most of it round my midriff.

Also what do you regard as acceptable BG levels?

Waking? less than 6?
Pre Prandial? less than 8?
And 2 hours post prandial? less than 10?

I've read several different opinions, one being that you should always be under 7....something i'll never achieve unless i exist on lettuce leaves :cry:
 
Hooly,

About one month after diagnosis - I could stand on the scales without breaking them - 24 stones, and I'm 6'2". Two years before diagnosis I was 28 stone.

Firstly, I'm not the one who should be setting you targets. It's between you and your healthcare team to agree those targets. As I understand it, you've made a great start.

My approach to readings is, that as long as I see them go down, then I'm happy. F'r instance the week after diagnosis my FBG was 19.6 and my Post Prandial was 22.2. The following week 17.2 and 14.7. By the end of July I was getting lots of readings below 10 and so on. Now, my FBGs are in the fours and low fives and my PPs are, generally < 7.

I believe that an HbA1c < 6.5% is achievable, and indeed there are many members of this forum who have achieved that. As I understand it a non-diabetic HbA1c is > 4.5% < 6.5%. There are plenty of opinions about where you should aim for and I guess the ultimate would be to revert to normal numbers, but remembering not to kick yourself too hard if you miss now and again.
To me, the key thing is to bring down your BG at a rate you're happy with to levels you are happy with, knowing what the risks are of running high BG. In other words, any improvement brings you benefits.

Regards, Tubs.
 
tubolard said:
Firstly, I'm not the one who should be setting you targets. It's between you and your healthcare team to agree those targets. As I understand it, you've made a great start
Click to expand...

Admittedly i haven't seen the specialists yet, but the practice nurse intimated that for now it doesn't matter if my readings are high, just as long as they're constant i.e. not spiking to 13/14 or dropping to the less than 6's which had previously encouraged me.

Does that sound about right?
 
It's a matter of risk management. The longer BG levels are higher than normal, the more likely complications are likely to arise and the sooner they will come about. Is that risk acceptable to you? I would not be happy keeping my BG constantly higher than normal, I like my feet, my eyes, and my kidneys, it's almost as if they are a part of me :P

There are two elements to BG management, 1) your diet and 2) your exercise levels. You can find out how both affect your BG by testing. You will be able to see how your mid morning two rounds of sandwiches and 2 yoghurts affect your BG by taking a pre prandial reading and a post prandial. Is the difference acceptable?

Do this, for as long as your fingers can take it. Take readings before each meal, one hour after each meal, two hours after each meal, and before bed. Make a note of what you eat at each meal. You should be able to identify which foods affected your BG more than others, they will be the carbs, these are the ones to reduce, change or avoid.

It could be that you need to move input around, you say you have a small breakfast, it might need to be a little larger, reducing the need for a large mid-morning break, evenly distributing the input throughout the day rather than in different sized hits.

Part of your diet must be a realisation of what you do, are you in a sedentary job? or are you physically active? carb/calorie intake differs.

Seriously though, speak with your dietitian, talk to her about the various options low carb, moderate carb, low GI. You and I, we have to lose weight and maintain our BG, what we eat and what we do with that input has a lot to do with both.

Random thoughts from here on

carrots are a wonderful source of fibre and will fill you, also much lower in carbs than a slice of bread, and raw, they have a lower GI than bread too - meaning they'll leave you feeling full for longer, hummus makes a wonderful dip and is low GI and low carbs (I've found a great jalapeno pepper hummus that goes well with carrot).

Mrs. Tubs does a great pasta, tomato and courgette sauce which is bulky, and filling, and with wholemeal pasta can fall into low GI territory. Ms. Tubs eats it as well, which is a very good thing.

If you increase your fibre input you will need to drink more, otherwise you will become blocked, which makes everything much worse, believe me, been there, worn that particular t-shirt :oops:

Regards, Tubs.
 
Thanks for all the tips Tubs, much appreciated....have never tried raw carrot but will give it a whirl :)

What i have noticed via all the testing is that things that sent my BG soaring two weeks ago dont now.....presumably thats because the overall long term glucose content in my blood is gradually dropping as i avoid all the blatantly obvious bad things?

2 legs of chicken, basmati rice [generous portion] and tinned peas sent me from 10.2 - 14-9 and 6.0 - 13.1, 2 weeks ago....but only from 6.2 - 7.6 last night.....so i guess thats progress.

My job - as a lorry driver - is a mix of sedentary, bullwork and total stress. And i've known from day 1 it would be the death of me :D....still like to keep my licence though.
 
What i have noticed via all the testing is that things that sent my BG soaring two weeks ago dont now.....presumably thats because the overall long term glucose content in my blood is gradually dropping as i avoid all the blatantly obvious bad things?
Click to expand...
It is possible that losing weight is improving your insulin resistance. It's a bit of a catch-22 situation, insulin resistance makes losing weight difficult yet losing that weight will help improve insulin resistance.

2 legs of chicken, basmati rice [generous portion] and tinned peas sent me from 10.2 - 14-9 and 6.0 - 13.1, 2 weeks ago....but only from 6.2 - 7.6 last night.....so i guess thats progress.
Click to expand...
Watch the contents label of packaged food, the higher up sugar is in the list of contents, the more there is, I was surprised to see sugar as the second ingredient in a can of Tesco tinned tomatos, yet no added sugar in the brand we now buy.

My job - as a lorry driver - is a mix of sedentary, bullwork and total stress. And i've known from day 1 it would be the death of me :D....still like to keep my licence though.
Click to expand...
For a moment there I had an image of an archetypal heavy set trucker, dipping individual carrot batons into a houmous dip, little finger raised, in a transport caff somewhere off the M1 :) brings tears to my eyes.

On a more serious note, the more work you do now, the better control you have over your BG, the longer it will be before your diabetes progresses. I don't want to confuse matters there are a number of ongoing discussions about the inevitability of progression with diabetes - I firmly believe that progression can be slowed down the better control we have of our blood glucose.

Regards, Tubs.

Edited after posting to replace tinned veg with packaged food when advising to look at ingredients list
 
Hi Hooly,
Its not just the sugar content you need to watch, the total carbs need taking into account they can affect your BG, have a look at some of the threads on carbs.

Regards Graham
 
Back
Top