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Want to introduce more carbs on Keto

T

tom2pin

Active Member
Messages
30
Location
Harrogate
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi Everyone, So I've been managing RH with the Keto diet for the past 6 months which definitely stabilised things, I've literally been doing full keto and not cycling carbs (as I've been afraid of triggering a reaction). Does anyone have experience of doing this and reintroducing more complex carbs ie. Rice/Quinoa/Oats etc without having problems? I'm afraid that I've become so glucose intolerant but I really want to improve this if I can? Anyone have any protocols or advise?

I've used guar gum before and thinking of trying berberine
 
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Why do you think you’ve become pathologically intolerant to carbs as opposed to physiologically (or adaptive glucose sparing) ?

Any other reason for wanting to increase carbs if it’s controlling the Rh well?
 
I know very little about RH but I would imagine that if you begin reintroducing carbohydrate then you could expect the same problems to return that spurred you to give them up in the first instance.
 
HSSS said:
Why do you think you’ve become pathologically intolerant to carbs as opposed to physiologically (or adaptive glucose sparing) ?

Any other reason for wanting to increase carbs if it’s controlling the Rh well?
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Hey thanks for your reply. My honest answer is I'm really not sure and I want to know why!

My endocrinologist thinks I have an element of insulin resistance and I've had insomnia for years so my guess is that has caused it. I also have 'adrenal fatigue' although not addisons and not confirmed by my endo. I see a Functional medicine practitioner and she has done several tests showing a toxic overload on my system (mold, yeast, heavy metals)...so my liver is overloaded also.

I'm also seeing a specialist about Mast Cell Activation Syndrome & POTS.

The past couple of years my body has had a crazy reaction and I'm still trying to figure out what is going on!

The reason I want to increase carbs is because Keto isn't supposed to be a long term solution and I'm having reactions to medications and supplements containing the tiniest amount of carbs... So I just want to build my tolerance ideally and fluctuate between Keto and carb cycling.
 

Hi, I've tried to introduce certain favourite foods to see how I do with them from time to time. Certain things that someone with other than RH could tolerate as a treat of some such. I've changed a lot of things since diagnosis, to see if would help with control. Some things have, mostly not!
You think to yourself, go on have a extra piece of dark chocolate, have a roastie, some gravy and so on.
Just a waste of time!

Because of the way RH happens, once triggered and the overshoot occurs the hypo is inevitable.

The only thing that will help you is a drug such as a Gliptin. Which increases the initial insulin response, the trigger is still going to happen but not as bad as without the drug.

My reasoning on it all and after going through all the experiment and recording of how my body reacts to certain foods, many months of trial and error, readings, recording, tracking my blood glucose levels and seeing what happens.
I came up with the conclusion that if I wanted to avoid the rollercoaster ride of the yo yo effect of continuous hypers and hypos, then I would have to ignore a lot of my doctors dietary advice and go Keto for as long as possible.
I can't put myself through all that again, no thanks!
I'd rather do without those foods, indeed, I am quite happy, not having to eat them, as my health is the most important thing for me.

As always, we are all different, and what works for me, might not for you.

Best wishes
 
You are probably seeing glucose sparing which is not (pathological) insulin resistance. Glucose sparing is expected physiology for those in dietary ketosis who then dabble in carbohydrate. If you are indeed insulin resistant, then adding glucose is the single worst thing you can do.

I think @Brunneria knows a thing or two about RH.
 
Hi,

Thanks @Jim Lahey

@tom2pin
Why do you think that keto isn’t supposed to be a longterm solution? it has worked marvellously for me, for years.

however, if you do want to reintroduce carbs, then give it a go. It is the kind of thing you have to try out for size, because your experience may be completely different from mine.

I have learned not to bother to do this, because it just doesn’t work for me. Maybe it will for you?

My recommendation would be:

Test diligently
Use low GI carbs
Be precise in your portion sizes
Go slow
and, most importantly, make careful note of how you feel, on a daily or more than daily basis.

On the occasions I have brought carbs back in, it usually goes OK for a few days. I feel good-ish. Life is good. I conveniently persuade myself that I am handling it well. I ignore the warning signs. Right up until the point that I really start to feel rough, and accept that this isn't working. Then I re-embrace keto, and suffer several days of knock on grunginess before I start feeling well again.
 


Thanks Lamont, indeed my health is the most important thing, I'm just unsure of the best way forward and want to heal this condition the best I can. May I ask how long you've been on Keto? I still have very low energy doing the diet.
 

Okay, first thing is insulin resistance is there because your body has too much insulin because of the frequency of episodes of overshoot insulin after food, it won't go away straight away or until your body has stopped producing too much insulin, you may still have hyperinsulinaemia. Too much insulin because of the overshoot causes insulin resistance.
Insomnia is a symptom of many conditions in problems with your metabolism and is a brain reaction to your imbalance of hormones because of food.
I suffered for years with insomnia, because of hypos, vivid dreams and being unwell with the high levels of insulin.
Your liver will be struggling to help with your imbalance of hormones, you may have toxicity, but I had Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver, but I wasn't diagnosed this until after my RH diagnosis, but I did drink sociable once a week until I gave up alcohol about fifteen years ago.

I would wait for the other tests to see what needs to be changed.
Going Keto, or just above normal blood glucose levels, is my way of controlling the RH.
This made me healthy again, hopefully for a long time to come.

By now you should be getting to know what is best for you!
Why change something that is working?
 
tom2pin said:
Thanks Lamont, indeed my health is the most important thing, I'm just unsure of the best way forward and want to heal this condition the best I can. May I ask how long you've been on Keto? I still have very low energy doing the diet.
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Since 2013, (since just before diagnosis) as I said I had a few months trying to find my balance that suited me.
Then I had a period in 2014, when I was testing after introducing the drug I mentioned, but soon went back to Keto.
I have not experienced a hypo, (that I know of) since. I have experienced hypers, but I have been able to stop the hypos occurring by eating very low carb throughout the day.
 


Thanks for your reply. I know keto is helping for sure. I'm trying to figure if I can heal the RH by finding the root cause of the problem but its just not that simple is it!

Keto will continue!
 
tom2pin said:
Thanks for your reply. I know keto is helping for sure. I'm trying to figure if I can heal the RH by finding the root cause of the problem but its just not that simple is it!

Keto will continue!
Click to expand...
Just for you to understand it a little bit more, RH is caused by food!
Certain foods that because of insulin resistance, weak initial insulin response, your blood glucose levels rise too high too quickly, your brain tells your pancreas to produce more insulin (overshoot) that drives your blood levels down into a hypo episode.
Regardless of how intolerant you are to these foods (mainly carbs and sugars) the fluctuating blood glucose levels are what causes the symptoms and damages your health over time.
Keto reverses this.
Because your body adapts and adjusts to lower insulin levels and no fluctuations.
Your body actually enjoys being in normal levels all the time.
Sleep is really important, it acts as a repair tool for your body whilst in normal range, but you do have to try and sleep naturally. In ketosis your sleep deprivation should get better.

Best wishes
 
I haven't got experience of re-introducing complex carbs, I started with low gi complex carbs (oats, home made soda bread), and removed these to get better results.

The issue you have with fatigue is something to be addressed. Taking supplements and the like may not be helping. I would go back to basics and ensure food is the medicine of first choice, with nutrient dense animal foods (unless you are specifically being prescribed for a condition).

Another way to improve insulin sensitivity is via robust exercise, but clearly the fatigue would need to improve.
 
Th


Thanks Lamont its good to talk to someone about this! Its been getting me down big time.
Yes sleep is so important and unfortunately I've had very little of it over the past 10 years. I've now weaned off a long term SSRI which is why theres so much going on, mentally and now physically.

Natural sleep is by far better than any chemically induced sleep, but with SSRI withdrawal I've been desperate and not slept for days. Its ruined me!

Thanks again its good to talk!
 


Thanks mate, yes there is a lot going on at the moment and its probably overshadowed the benefits from the Keto diet. I'll stick with it and get through this!
 
tom2pin said:
Thanks mate, yes there is a lot going on at the moment and its probably overshadowed the benefits from the Keto diet. I'll stick with it and get through this!
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When I was going through the time after diagnosis and the doubts and fear, the anxiety and stress, anger and having to deal with the last twelve years before diagnosis, knowing that I was having symptoms despite having normal blood glucose levels, on a recommendation of complex carbs, being told that I wasn't doing what I should be to treat the symptoms. I was misdiagnosed prediabetic then T2.
Getting my head around, that I was doing everything against medical advice despite me telling them how much Keto was working. Second guessing myself.
I can empathise and sympathise with you, I have been there!

Exercise is very good for you, but you have to be careful, walking is very good for you, if you are able. I would recommend a fifteen minute walk fifteen minutes after a meal, swimming is obviously just as good, but anything really strenuous could be not advisable because when you deplete your energy levels your liver will give you a glucose dump and that may trigger an episode.

I started walking for miles a day just to give me something I could do (being an oldie!)

Best wishes
 
Whilst I get there’s a lot going on the most frequent cause of tiredness associated directly with keto are insufficient fats (ie simply not enough fuel), dehydration and insufficient electrolytes (magnesium and potassium as well as sodium). All quite easy to resolve. Best make sure it’s not that simple whilst waiting on the other stuff to be sorted.
 
@tom2pin - Have you had your insulin and HOMA-IR levels tested, and have you looked at gluten and whether the carbs you react badly contain gluten?
 
DCUKMod said:
@tom2pin - Have you had your insulin and HOMA-IR levels tested, and have you looked at gluten and whether the carbs you react badly contain gluten?
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Hey, no I've never had the insulin test...do you think its worth while? I've always had a gluten sensitivity and avoid it.
 
tom2pin said:
Hey, no I've never had the insulin test...do you think its worth while? I've always had a gluten sensitivity and avoid it.
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Personally, I found it interesting to see how much, or little, insulin resistance I was experiencing at the point of testing. HOMA-IR is a snapshot of the moment you are tested, so it can be very variable. Some feel more committed to the score than others.

I would suggest you do some reading and decide for yourself.
 
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