Weight loss too high

bulkbiker said:

What's MMO?

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@bulkbiker I assume is an unusual shortening of mmol/mol, therefore HbA1c readings, @Chris Ewan will correct me if I’m wrong.
Chris to find out which is better, raising carbs or calories to slow your weight loss, I would say calories, raising your carbs might risk losing the lower HbA1c readings. Do you test your blood sugars at home at all?

Chris Ewan said:

@Rachox

No, I don't use a meter. I was never on medication and the doctor didn't see the point of me having one unless my HbA1c didn't drop with lifestyle change.

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I’m afraid Drs only seem to understand the use of testing with the blood glucose lowering medication so won’t back testing for type 2s on no drugs. In your position where you’re wondering whether to eat more calories or more carbs, blood glucose testing would be a great help while trying to balance your weight loss and diabetes

Chris Ewan said:

After an HbA1C of 88 at diagnosis of type 2 before Xmas, I did go into a panic mode and totally changed my diet. I initially cut down to 1500Kcal a day and 20g of carb (6' 4" 61 year old male) but that didn't agree with me and I upped the carbs to between 60-70g a day. That seemed to work and I had enough energy. After my first 3 month check, I was pleased that my HbA1C had gone down to 45 but I've stuck strictly to the diet as I need to lose about 30kg to reach my ideal weight.

I weigh myself once a week and I've noticed over the past couple of weeks that I'm losing over 3lb a week which is too much. I'm aiming for a max of 2lb. Question is: Do I raise the carbs or the calories? I'm not really sure whether the calories are a problem as long as I keep the carbs low.

Typically, I start with Shredded Wheat with semi-skimmed milk and some berries (strawberries, blueberries and a spoonful of pomegranates), lunch: tuna, avocado and salad. Dinner: steak/salmon/chicken etc with some peas and a small potato.

I have had a bad UTI which is clearing slowly so not sure whether that's relevant.

It's ironic that decided to get healthy after my diagnosis and I've never had so many issues

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The trouble with crash diets (which is what you are doing) is that weight loss can be swift as you are discovering but can also be short lived. Personally I'd try to reduce carbs back to the 20-30 g per day but not restrict calories at all.
Eat until full then stop, ideally 2 meals a day. your first meal is fairly high carb so I would avoid it just have lunch and dinner.

I don't see 3lb per week loss as being too much, especially when you have a larger amount to lose. There's a lot of evidence to show that rapid weight loss is more effective on lots of levels than slower weight loss. My local NHS Trust is trialling a 800 calories a day, low carb diet, for rapid weight loss and 'resetting' blood sugar levels.

I've recently lost 6 stones in weight following 800 calories/ketogenic diet and have had some fantastic success in resetting my health. I lost between 3 and 6 pounds each week for months and suffered no ill effects.

Maybe somebody else can offer you more advice?

tinmonkey said:

I don't see 3lb per week loss as being too much, especially when you have a larger amount to lose. There's a lot of evidence to show that rapid weight loss is more effective on lots of levels than slower weight loss. My local NHS Trust is trialling a 800 calories a day, low carb diet, for rapid weight loss and 'resetting' blood sugar levels.

I've recently lost 6 stones in weight following 800 calories/ketogenic diet and have had some fantastic success in resetting my health. I lost between 3 and 6 pounds each week for months and suffered no ill effects.

Maybe somebody else can offer you more advice?

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Hmmm
I'd like to see the evidence you quote about rapid weight loss being more effective, as most websites including the NHS says anything > 2lb isn’t safe (longer term as I saw much more rapid to start, but that was a very short time). I like to see differing opinions

The 800 calorie diet is controversial but I know as you say it is being trialled by the NHS. If you are going through such a diet then having it managed and monitored by them is sensible. There are a number of people it has worked for well but long term keeping it off is the aim so it's only one step on the journey

To be fair it's very conflicting info from the NHS as 800 calories seem to support such rapid weight loss where other parts of the NHS say not to do it!

I'm not saying not to do anything, just a consideration that anything extreme could be risky and having support medically Is a good idea. Also, slower and steady and a lifestyle change rather than crash diet could be more maintainable longer term. But we are all different

For me, lowering carbs and exercise from May to now was 32kg (5st) so hardly a crash but have a style I maintain. Personally, 800 calories wouldnt have been sustainable. even that slowly though came saggy boys... i have areas that I hope can be toned, if not, well I have to adapt to love the body I have now. But I have non stretchy skin anyway which is annoying. I think a crash diet would have been a lot worse for my personal situation.

But everyone is different, I would just say anything extreme I'd be wary of going alone on

I very much second the opinion that it is blood sugar that matters more than weight loss, or the rate of weight loss. Its the high sugars that cause the most long term problems and if you can keep those reasonable then weight loss tends to follow..

I never intended to lose 3 stone. It just came off as I adjusted to eating low carb. My weight loss has slowed and dwindled to virtually nothing now, but I am eating the same as when I was losing a stone a month. It was quiet rapidly start with but I just saw it as a nice side effect to low carbing. And, as long as I maintain a low carb way of life my weight seems to be maintaining too.
Concentrate on getting bg down, and keeping it down

Hi @Chris Ewan

Congratulations on the lowering of your BG levels and weight loss. I agree with @Rachox that you really should invest in a meter so you can test your BG levels as you adjust your carbs to make sure they are not increasing your BG levels. This gives you control and you can avoid any surprises when you rock up for your next quarterly test.
As for the 3lb weekly weight loss in chasing a further 30kg to get to your ideal weight I would be happy to lose that over multiple weeks unless you are feeling very poorly. Good luck on your journey and keep us posted

Andydragon said:

Hmmm
I'd like to see the evidence you quote about rapid weight loss being more effective, as most websites including the NHS says anything > 2lb isn’t safe (longer term as I saw much more rapid to start, but that was a very short time). I like to see differing opinions
n

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I'll quote this from Michael Mosley's Fast 800 website, as it gives you some of the studies used:

"
Diet Myth 1. It is better to lose weight slowly and steadily, rather than rapidly
There is a widespread belief that if you lose weight fast then you will put it on even faster. But is it true? In a recent review article titled “Myths, Presumptions and Facts about Obesity” in the prestigious medical journal, The New England Journal of Medicine, researchers put this claim firmly into the “myths” category. After looking at numerous studies which have compared rapid with slow and steady weight loss, they concluded that you would do better to lose it quickly rather than slowly. A recent Australian study backs up these claims. Researchers took 200 obese volunteers and put half of them on a low calorie diet (less than 800 calories a day) for 12 weeks. The other half were asked to cut their calories by 500 a day (enough to lose around a pound a week). They were asked to do this for 36 weeks. There was a very high drop-out rate among the steady dieters: less than half made it to the end of the 36 weeks. Most said they gave up because they were frustrated by the slow rate of progress. By comparison, more than 80% of those in the rapid weight loss programme stuck to it. They were then followed for three years. Although both groups put some weight back on, the amounts were similar. Katrina Purcell, a dietician who led the study, said, “our results show that achieving a weight loss target is more likely, and drop-out is lower, if losing weight is done quickly.” Rapid weight loss isn’t suitable for everyone and if you do decide to lose weight fast you have to make sure you have the right balance of nutrients in your diet."

I'm very much a convert to this way of thinking, because it worked for me. I struggled with my weight and health for over 30 years until I found this way of losing weight and maintaining the loss. As you say, losing the weight and resetting your health is only part of the journey. The real test comes in maintaining it, although I've never felt as confident of maintaining my current weight as I do right now.

Andydragon said:

The 800 calorie diet is controversial but I know as you say it is being trialled by the NHS. If you are going through such a diet then having it managed and monitored by them is sensible.

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I didn't follow any NHS plan, but used the Fast 800 Plan as the basis for my weight loss. I just adapted it slightly by reducing my carb intake to under 20g per day, when the diet plan would have allowed more. It worked for me. I'm off the metformin and blood pressure medications now, and levels are well within normal ranges.

Andydragon said:

To be fair it's very conflicting info from the NHS as 800 calories seem to support such rapid weight loss where other parts of the NHS say not to do it!

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As we all know, much of the advice that comes from the NHS is conflicting. Just look at the wellness plate as an example!

Congratulations on your own weight-loss journey. We are all different and we have to find a method that works for us.

@tinmonkey ..... wow, grats on the huge weight loss. Did you get any side effects from losing all the weight? Seems my digestive system still has trouble coping with the complete change in diet.

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Only negative side effect I had was occasional constipation, but I solved that by drinking a lot more water and taking an odd Fybogel.

I read and read information before starting out and it helped me enormously to understand what I was doing and why.

I'm definitely not saying that everyone must do what I did, but the option is there if it works for you.

You can lose weight by going low carb and ignoring calories - to adjust how fast you lose just eat more unprocessed fats. You need fat in your diet, and should be able to eat enough fat and protein so you don't feel hungry yet still lose weight. If you don't count calories then full fat is generally better for anyone on low carb so full fat milk and even cream and butter! And eating more fat than usual won't raise your cholesterol when low carb (mine actually improved).

Most of the T2s here have to self fund a meter - it is difficult to get the balance of carbs right is you don't test. The HbA1c is just an average so if those shredded wheats are spiking your blood sugar too high you won't know. Test before and 2 hrs after each meal so you can check how many carbs you can safely eat.
I only test once a week now as I know what I can eat, but still test before and after if I eat something I've not had before. Otherwise once a week will tell me if my system is changing and if I need to drop carbs again.

As for fibre - if you go less frequently that is not an issue, we don't need to go every day, but if you get constipated eat more green veg and add milled flaxseed.
I have a breakfast of milled flaxseed with a little chia seeds, cinnamon, salt and a sprinkle of oatbran - made with water and coconut milk, served with double cream. My single serving of fruit a day is usually a few fresh raspberries with full fat Greek yogurt (real Greek yogurt is usually the lowest in carbs).

tinmonkey said:

I don't see 3lb per week loss as being too much, especially when you have a larger amount to lose. There's a lot of evidence to show that rapid weight loss is more effective on lots of levels than slower weight loss. My local NHS Trust is trialling a 800 calories a day, low carb diet, for rapid weight loss and 'resetting' blood sugar levels.

I've recently lost 6 stones in weight following 800 calories/ketogenic diet and have had some fantastic success in resetting my health. I lost between 3 and 6 pounds each week for months and suffered no ill effects.

Maybe somebody else can offer you more advice?

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I would be interested in seeing that evidence too.
Even Professor Taylor of the Newcastle Diet studies is on record as having said that weightloss is the goal, not rapid weightloss, and not by any particular method, either.

Brunneria said:

I would be interested in seeing that evidence too.
Even Professor Taylor of the Newcastle Diet studies is on record as having said that weightloss is the goal, not rapid weightloss, and not by any particular method, either.

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Very old thread I realise but do you know where this record of him saying this is please? I’m struggling to find it even though I’ve seen it before