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What does "reverse"diabetes mean?

Ange G

Active Member
Messages
33
Location
Merseyside
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Please can anyone tell me what it means to reverse diabetes. I was newly diagnosed with type 2 last week and waiting for my appointment with the diabetic nurse. The GP told me I will always have diabetes so I don't understand how it is possible for some people to reverse it, I want to give it try.

It wasn't on my "wish" list to join this club nor I imagine any of your wish lists too!!!
 
So far it only means arresting diabetes by choosing your food carefully. There is no cure but you can stop it getting worse and maybe even make it a little better but ONLY if you change to a suitable diet and stick to it.
 
welcome here Ange G

I am wondering the same questions...
reverse in my view would be that one could eat like or almost like one could before becoming diabetic...

and getting ones numbers down to normal is not necessarily that.

low carbing does get ones numbers down, and very low carbing can get most peoples numbers very close to normal and lower in some... but then when they start to eat more carbs again... the diabetes monster right away shows its scary face again in far the most of all it looks like...............

the is the Newcastle diets results where about half of people under the trial or a little less can eat again carbs and up to 6 month thereafter if not gaining the weight again...

is many type 2 diabetics ill because of a changing in their genes... why does insuline resistance devellop and why do the scientists not know how to reverse it... why can´t they solve the riddle
 

I don't hold this point merely because I have been officially categorised as Diabetes Resolved, but I don't quite agree with the requirement of eating exactly like the pre-diagnostic diet.

Of course there are some on here who always ate very good diets, but unfortunately a physiological or pathalogical change or their need for certain high dose drugs pushed them over into a diabetic state.

I can now tolerate carbs pretty well, although I haven't bothered to eat cakes and so on. I never really did, so I see no need to do it to prove or disprove a point. I think if the individual has achieved serial non-diabetic HbA1cs, and they are living with way of eating they enjoy and are doing so, without feelings of deprivation, then that way of eating is their new normal.

Of course it's not a view shared by everyone, but it's mine.
 
Hi 'AndBreathe'; could you tell us newbies more about what resolved diabetes is, and how you get that status confirmed etc?
I ask because I lost a load of weight and am currently measuring bg levels under the diabetes diagnosis levels every time; I'd like to find out more about if there is a route to greater carb tolerance etc. And also whether keeping bg levels under the diabetes diagnostic levels will slow/ arrest the onset of the disease and complications. I actually prefer my new lifestyle and diet anyway, but if I could have something like a small bowl of oatmeal or a banana once in a while without doing any actual damage, then it might be helpful.
 
Also, I agree about the 'need to be able to eat without restriction' criteria being unhelpful.
If you were non-diabetic and got T2 through diet and lifestyle, then of course returning to that lifestyle will bring back the diabetes.But then, the same more or less applies to everybody over 40, whether they've ever had diabetes or not.
Likewise, I was BMI obese, I'm now BMI normal. If I go back to my bad old ways, I'll easily go back to being BMI obese.
But does that mean I'm actually obese *right now*?
 
My definitions:

My diabetes is controlled because my bloood glucose is normal so long as I limit my carb intake.
My diabetes will be in remission if my blood glucose remains normal regardless of what I eat.

I'm not yet in remission, although I have moved from diabetic back to being prediabetic (based on an oral glucose tolerance test). I hope to ultimately enter remission. (I am moving in that direction - I am back to eating maintenance calories (after losing 74 lbs) and spending most of the time most days below 5.0. When I previously ate maintenance calories (during a 3 month break from weight loss for cancer care), most days were consistently 5.6 or above. I am still going higher in response to carb consumption - but regardless of how high it goes, it nearly always drops to below 5.0 within 2 hours (for the first time since diagnosis). My path to remission is via the taylor/blood sugar diet.
 
Wow, now that is quite exciting news. Neohdiver, you're actually back to pre-diabetes? I wasn't sure that was possible, but if it is, then you should be able to get back to 'true' remission. Work hard, good luck, and please let us know your progress- you're a bit of a trailblazer!
 
Hi @Geordie_P

I would class myself as in the resolved category. I can now eat cakes, sweets, high carb food and my blood glucose levels stay within normal. I do not always choose to but that is mainly because my tastes have dramatically changed (I was bought a doughnut recently and I thought the smell alone was disgusting and the taste was just yuck).

My reversed is just that reversed; I can eat normally (chips, bread potatoes, bags of liquorice/wine gums etc). This does not mean I do so all the time. I like to have "blow out days" with these and stick to around 150g carb most days.

I did lots of experimentation with raising carbs and found that the first couple of days are the worst because your body doesnt react fast enough. Increase them slow if you are going to do it (say up to 50g each couple of days) and test lots
 
Although my DN has told me 'once a diabetic always a diabetic' I would class myself as resolved. My hba1c has been between 36 and 38 for over two years and, whilst I still don't eat as many carbs as I used to, through testing I am finding that I can eat them with little effect on my BS.
 
@Ange G

Hello Ange and welcome to the forum As mentioned above, here is the information we give to newly diagnosed members and following this should help you gain good control of your levels. Restricting carbs is very important and there is a link here to the Low Carb Program which will help you. Ask more questions when you need to and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 210,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 
If you carry on as you are doing then your next HbA1c should be well below the pre diabetes level. Do you have a target weight to get to? I only ask because its handy to have a plan as to what you will change your diet too once you have lost the weight. You weigh a fair bit less than me already.
 

Geordie, it looks like you've done extremely well in shifting all your markers into an excellent place.

My HbA1c scores since diagnosis are in my signature, below my posts. once I had had a few well under the diabetes and pre-diabetes threshold, my Doctor suggested taking me off the diabetic register as my margin (lower than pre-diabetes) is quite large. I agreed, but we both agreed I should still have annual HbA1c tests, as I will always be at risk of developing diabetes again (for whatever reason).

To be honest, I hadn't gone with the aim of being removed from the diabetic register. The appointment was actually to discuss my lipid numbers (which is a whole different, and very long and boring story!), where I was being offered statins, only on the basis that policy was "all diabetics should be offered statins". I responded to that remark with, when do I actually get some margin of credit for serial non-diabetic HbA1c scores? She then suggested I should probably be removed from the register.

I can eat more carbs than my earlier days, and sometimes do. For example, I never order any special airline food. I just have what's going and deal with it on the hoof. When I have done that, and been using a Freestyle Libre (a continuous monitor), my bloods never got close to any kind of concerning numbers (I can't recall the numbers, so won't post something that could be wrong).

Andcol has posted about sometimes really pushing the carb envelope by eating packs of sweets or significantly carby meals. I've had carby meals, like airline food, but airline portions are usually pretty modest.

When you want to stop losing weight (if you haven't already), you could try a few more carbs, although I chose not to stabilise my weight by eating carbs, because I didn't want to have to to maintain my weight longer term.

We all choose different ways to manage this condition and it is all a bit trial and error to be honest.

The reversed/resolved thing? That just seems like a lottery. Some Docs subscribe to it and others reject resolved/reversed/cured (choose the term of your choice) out of hand.

It's all a game!

Just before I hit the button, Geordie - I've only just noticed your post. if you wuld like a response from someone, it helps to tag them, by adding a @ sign before their name. So, for you that would be @Geordie_P . Folks then receive an alert, as I hope you will for both the reply and the tagging.
 
Thanks for the details guys, that is some *seriously* inspiring stuff. Andcol and AndBreathe, you're pretty much where I'm going to aspire to be from now on; Bulkbiker, you've always got some solid advice for me and I appreciate it.
I'll take encouragement from this and keeping working away at it.
 

Whats your daily carb intake? I always wonder when people go lowcarb to lose weight, maybe you just have physological insulin restiance because of the low carb consumption? Say you are high carb for 3 days straight and then started to test your sugars, what would happen then?
 
I would just like to thank everyone for responding to my post. Although i didn't want to be in 'the club', I am truly grateful that I have found this site and forum. The support you lot give to each other is fantastic and encouraging, I have so much to learn about my diagnosis but I know I am not alone and I know where to ask.
Thank you and best wishes to all.
 
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My carb intake ranges from 20 net to 60 net. (I was not going low carb to lose weight - I counted calories to lose weight. The low carb is purely for control of diabetes.)

But in order to get an accurate reading on the OGTT, I spaced my meals so I consumed 100-120 net carbs for 3 days before I did the OGTT. I'm testing in the prediabetic range, rather than diabetic, following the first phase of the Taylor/blood sugar diet.
 
OK, I don't know if this is significant, but I decided to experiment with some starch- I haven't touched any since diagnosis, but today I had sushi- so raw fish and rice. I had 10 pieces- the normal amount I would have eaten before diagnosis, and my blood glucose measurement journal is as follows.

7:30am, fasting blood glucose 4.2 (I'm usually in the 3.3 to 3.9 range, but I had some walnuts and sunflower seeds at night as I have been advised my numbers tend to run a little bit too low)

I then had one whole boiled egg and one leftover boiled egg yolk and six walnut halves for breakfast. Later I had a small amount of sunflower seeds for a snack. I had quite a lot of black chinese tea over the course of the morning.

At about 1:30pm I did a test- it was 4.2, exactly the same as my fasting. I then went for sushi and had 10 pieces. Meal was about 1:45 to 2:00.

At 4:00pm I did another test, and it was7.3.

I'm not going to push my luck, carb-wise, but is that last reading significant? To my best understanding, lower than 7.8 should be the sort of reading a non-diabetic would have, with diabetes being greater than 11, and pre-diabetes being the range in between.
 
Yesterday's evening meal I had Toad-in-the hole that is sausages wrapped in bacon in a Yorkshire pudding type batter before meal 5.2 two hours after was 5.7, FBG this morning was 4.8 don't know if that signifies some reversal or remission or not.
 
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