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What does the UK leaving the EU mean for us?
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<blockquote data-quote="tim2000s" data-source="post: 1203694" data-attributes="member: 30007"><p>This is the point of view I don't understand. We are already part of a bigger global market. We export services globally as much as we export goods. There is limited likelihood of us re-balancing the UK economy to a manufacturing economy unless a huge amount of intervention is done at a government level to address it, so any hopes that this is somehow the outcome of the Brexit are somewhat rose-tinted I feel. </p><p></p><p>There is absolutely no evidence that by being part of the EU we forego trade anywhere else. For example, BAE has been selling fighter jets to many places, outside of the EU for years, as have our oil engineering experts. The argument that "We don't have to live with the EU trade deals with other countries that aren't as good as those we could negotiate ourselves" but outside the EU it doesn't matter if WTO tariffs are applied to EU countries as they are single digit works the other way too. </p><p></p><p>So what if there isn't a deal with China? The imposed tariffs are such it hardly matters either, except when China chooses to unilaterally penalise a counterparty, which they do when they like. </p><p></p><p>I think that often, too much emphasis is placed on the EU, as opposed to Europe in terms of trade "deals". Europe is our largest trading partner due to its proximity and the range of goods available (our top 5 trading partners for decades have been the US, Germany, France, the Netherlands and Ireland) not because we are/were part of the EU. What the EU single market does is make that trade substantially easier. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I assume you are referring to Steinhoff buying Poundland. It's not like this is a Brexit based move. Steinhoff group now has 6,500 outlets in 30 countries, 22 manufacturing facilities and 40 retail brands, including Bensons for Beds and Harveys in the UK, Conforama in Europe, Pep and Ackermans in South Africa and Snooze in Australia. Steinhoff derives about 60% of its earnings in Europe and 34% in Africa. It was already a global, acquisitive, enterprise looking out for opportunities.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Interestingly, the UK hasn't ever been bad at R&D. What we've historically been terrible at is the Engineering piece that takes the R&D and turns it into a saleable product. There are countless examples where that IP has left the UK, both before and after 1975. Whilst I don't see a national ideas company ever having legs, I get the idea of a national fund to invest in innovation, with strings on commercial realisation of any product. The question comes back to "Where do you take the money from to do that?". It's essentially Venture Capital investment and that investment is not returned in around 75% of cases. Is that a risk that we, as the UK are willing to take with public money that could have gone elsewhere?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with you on this. I think many others do too. If a company fails, no director has the right to a golden parachute. They should go down in the same way as the rest of the employees. That is, after all, what they are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tim2000s, post: 1203694, member: 30007"] This is the point of view I don't understand. We are already part of a bigger global market. We export services globally as much as we export goods. There is limited likelihood of us re-balancing the UK economy to a manufacturing economy unless a huge amount of intervention is done at a government level to address it, so any hopes that this is somehow the outcome of the Brexit are somewhat rose-tinted I feel. There is absolutely no evidence that by being part of the EU we forego trade anywhere else. For example, BAE has been selling fighter jets to many places, outside of the EU for years, as have our oil engineering experts. The argument that "We don't have to live with the EU trade deals with other countries that aren't as good as those we could negotiate ourselves" but outside the EU it doesn't matter if WTO tariffs are applied to EU countries as they are single digit works the other way too. So what if there isn't a deal with China? The imposed tariffs are such it hardly matters either, except when China chooses to unilaterally penalise a counterparty, which they do when they like. I think that often, too much emphasis is placed on the EU, as opposed to Europe in terms of trade "deals". Europe is our largest trading partner due to its proximity and the range of goods available (our top 5 trading partners for decades have been the US, Germany, France, the Netherlands and Ireland) not because we are/were part of the EU. What the EU single market does is make that trade substantially easier. I assume you are referring to Steinhoff buying Poundland. It's not like this is a Brexit based move. Steinhoff group now has 6,500 outlets in 30 countries, 22 manufacturing facilities and 40 retail brands, including Bensons for Beds and Harveys in the UK, Conforama in Europe, Pep and Ackermans in South Africa and Snooze in Australia. Steinhoff derives about 60% of its earnings in Europe and 34% in Africa. It was already a global, acquisitive, enterprise looking out for opportunities. Interestingly, the UK hasn't ever been bad at R&D. What we've historically been terrible at is the Engineering piece that takes the R&D and turns it into a saleable product. There are countless examples where that IP has left the UK, both before and after 1975. Whilst I don't see a national ideas company ever having legs, I get the idea of a national fund to invest in innovation, with strings on commercial realisation of any product. The question comes back to "Where do you take the money from to do that?". It's essentially Venture Capital investment and that investment is not returned in around 75% of cases. Is that a risk that we, as the UK are willing to take with public money that could have gone elsewhere? I agree with you on this. I think many others do too. If a company fails, no director has the right to a golden parachute. They should go down in the same way as the rest of the employees. That is, after all, what they are. [/QUOTE]
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