Where to start with low cholesterol diet?

[douglas99]

"I went from 8.38mmo/l to 3.6mmol/l a couple of months later. When you are in diabetic ketosis sky high lipids are the norm."

I spend most of my life in 'diabetic ketosis' but my lipids are very good. No need for statins. Do you mean diabetic ketoacidosis?

Diabetics, and even some health professionals, often confuse two quite distinct metabolic processes - ketosis and ketoacidosis. Ketosis is a perfectly natural and healthy state during which the body uses stored or dietary fat for fuel. In order to enter this state, carbohydrate intake needs to fall below a certain level. Ideally, a healthy metabolism should regularly use ketosis, while fasting overnight for example, to fuel the body's processes and utilise stored fat reserves. Most of the body's organs, the heart for example, in fact run very efficiently on ketones.

Ketoacidosis is quite different and is typically the result of a chronic lack of insulin, not a lack of carbohydrate. With insufficient insulin, the body attempts to fuel itself by breaking down fat and protein stores in an uncontrolled way, a process which results in the blood becoming dangerously acidic. In short, ketosis usually occurs when blood sugars are at the lower end of the normal range, and ketoacidosis occurs when blood sugars are dangerously elevated. Ketosis is a result of low carbohydrate intake, ketoacidosis is a result of inaquate insulin levels.

FB

What's your numbers in ketosis?

 

[douglas99]

I would agree 100%-I have been in constant ketosis for many months and my lipid panels have consistently improved,as has my HbA1c and my weight is well controlled where I want it to be.

Paul

What's your figures?

 

[phoenix]

I was very careful to say diabetic ketosis but for clarity.
When someone is developing T1 and even more so LADA and sometimes in undiagnosed T2* , the lack of insulin is relative. People don't go from having normal amounts of insulin to 'none' overnight. As they produce insufficient insulin to admit glucose to the cells, the body starts breaking up fat and muscle to provide fuel (ketosis) . The person looses weight but doesn't immediately develop DKA because there is still enough insulin to act as a partial brake and prevent acidosis. Eventually though the lipids build up, as do the glucose levels causing lipo and glucoxicity and this in turn produces insulin resistance. The residual insulin is no longer enough and ketones multiply sufficient to cause acidosis. If someone is treated before they get to this stage then there blood may not become acidic.(or least not at a significant enough level for treatment)
The amount of fatty acids in the blood by this time is reflected in the abnormal lipid profile . (see the picture I showed and Dayspring's quote.)
After insulin is administered. the temporary insulin resistance is quickly reduced and many people require only low doses of insulin for a while (honeymoon ).
Of course in established T1 the process is much quicker.

Should diabetic ketosis without acidosis be included in ketosis-prone type 2 diabetes mellitus?
* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24038858

Obviously the 2 of you are not amongst those that Dr Dayspring suggests are hyper-synthesizers

 

[douglas99]

I was very careful to say diabetic ketosis but for clarity.
When someone is developing T1 and even more so LADA and sometimes in undiagnosed T2* , the lack of insulin is relative. People don't go from having normal amounts of insulin to 'none' overnight. As they produce insufficient insulin to admit glucose to the cells, the body starts breaking up fat and muscle to provide fuel (ketosis) . The person looses weight but doesn't immediately develop DKA because there is still enough insulin to act as a partial brake and prevent acidosis. Eventually though the lipids build up, as do the glucose levels causing lipo and glucoxicity and this in turn produces insulin resistance. The residual insulin is no longer enough and ketones multiply sufficient to cause acidosis. If someone is treated before they get to this stage then there blood may not become acidic.(or least not at a significant enough level for treatment)
The amount of fatty acids in the blood by this time is reflected in the abnormal lipid profile . (see the picture I showed and Dayspring's quote.)
After insulin is administered. the temporary insulin resistance is quickly reduced and many people require only low doses of insulin for a while (honeymoon ).
Of course in established T1 the process is much quicker.

Should diabetic ketosis without acidosis be included in ketosis-prone type 2 diabetes mellitus?
* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24038858

Obviously the 2 of you are not amongst those that Dr Dayspring suggests are hyper-synthesizers

We're discussing diet, to control bs and cholesterol, so it's safe to assume the posters on here know where they are, and what their diet is doing.
If you're in permanent self induced ketosis your figures would be interesting.

 

[phoenix]

Douglas, I apologise for going off topic. I was clarifying what I meant by diabetic ketosis as I was challenged on it by the following poster. Fatbird .My high levels were not self induced but diabetes induced and as I indicated this can happen at the diagnosis of T1.

My original answer included what Dr Dayspring's low carbing patient did to lower her cholesterol ie she introduced chia seeds, oat meal, apples , reduced dairy and watched her sat fat.

 

[douglas99]

Douglas, I apologise for going off topic. I was clarifying what I meant by diabetic ketosis as I was challenged on it by the following poster. Fatbird .My high levels were not self induced but diabetes induced and as I indicated this can happen at the diagnosis of T1.

My original answer included what Dr Dayspring's low carbing patient did to lower her cholesterol ie she introduced chia seeds, oat meal, apples , reduced dairy and watched her sat fat.

I'm probably getting mixed up on posters now.

I have to agree with your suggestions here, and it seems to be the recommended suggestion to lower cholesterol, which again seems to be the right way to go at the moment.

 

[fatbird]

Diabetics are right to be fearful of the risks of heart disease, since rates are many times higher than those of non-diabetics.

Since around 80% of the cholesterol in the body is actually manufactured by the liver and the cells, relatively little comes directly from the diet. Total cholesterol is however now widely recognised as a very poor indicator of heart disease risk.

Far more meaningful are the individual components of total cholesterol, known as high density lipoprotein (HDL) and triglycerides. Trig. / HDL ratio is perhaps the single most significant measure of heart disease risk.The lower the triglycerides and the higher the HDL, the better. Insulin and glucose combine to raise triglycerides and lower HDL, which is why a low fat, high carbohydrate diet may actually increase heart disease risk. It’s commonly reported that those on low carb diets have lower cholesterol levels and certainly much improved trig. / HDL ratios.

FB

 

[douglas99]

Diabetics are right to be fearful of the risks of heart disease, since rates are many times higher than those of non-diabetics.

Since around 80% of the cholesterol in the body is actually manufactured by the liver and the cells, relatively little comes directly from the diet. Total cholesterol is however now widely recognised as a very poor indicator of heart disease risk.

Far more meaningful are the individual components of total cholesterol, known as high density lipoprotein (HDL) and triglycerides. Trig. / HDL ratio is perhaps the single most significant measure of heart disease risk.The lower the triglycerides and the higher the HDL, the better. Insulin and glucose combine to raise triglycerides and lower HDL, which is why a low fat, high carbohydrate diet may actually increase heart disease risk. It’s commonly reported that those on low carb diets have lower cholesterol levels and certainly much improved trig. / HDL ratios.

FB

No it's not.
It's why I'd like some real figures, not hearsay.
I've looked, and apart from a low carb diet possibly raising LDL's, it's not out there.

Any figures you can refer me to?

 

[fatbird]

Here are some figures posted on this forum viewtopic.php?f=43&t=48261#p434968

With tears in my eyes I write this, I got my hba1c done yesterday alone with the lipid profile for cholesterol etc, I havent yet seen the results in black and white but my wife rang me, she has a print out from the doc with my results, well I have worked very hard at this since february and feel like i have saved my life (assuming i dont die whilst writing this post) my new numbers are

Hba1c 36 :shock:
Triglicerides 0.7 :shock:
hdl ratio 2.8 :shock:

in feb my hba1c was 106
triglicerides 2.9 (i think)
hdl 6.3

my bp was 250/150
now its 106/65 (avg)

im fitter beyond words

im so happy i could fly

I had already lost 2 stone mysteriously before dx and since then lost another 4 stone and now maintained it for months

I have been low carbing, completely ignoring calories and eating lots and lots of FAT, I have pretty much ignored every word the doctors and nurses have told me and learned everything I know from the good people on the site and random internet searching but mostly here, there have been a few particular people that have helped me, my good friend WhitbyJet to name the first with amazing advice and even more amazing recipes and far too many to name individually, but you know who you are giving me daily advice and encouragement along the way, I really do mean it when I say I couldnt have come to where I am now without you all, you are simply amazing

 

[paul-1976]

I would agree 100%-I have been in constant ketosis for many months and my lipid panels have consistently improved,as has my HbA1c and my weight is well controlled where I want it to be.

Paul

What's your figures?

What's your angle?

 

[Rockape671]

I just got back from the doctor and he has put me on a low cholesterol diet. What the heck am I going to eat when I go to Mexico? Where do I start with this?

All very confusing, but, I think the majority would agree that a reduced carbohydrate diet with as little processed food as possible would be a good starting point.
ps. Nice one Fatbird :thumbup:

 

[douglas99]

I would agree 100%-I have been in constant ketosis for many months and my lipid panels have consistently improved,as has my HbA1c and my weight is well controlled where I want it to be.

Paul

What's your figures?

What's your angle?

Rockape671, good figures, I'm trying raise my own HDL, and lower the LDL. Brilliant triglycerides!
Similar to noblehead, so it's a good start to my quest and consistent so far.
I'm really hopeful carty has a breakdown, as she's lchf.

My targets are
HDL, over 1.6, currently 1.1
LDL less than 1.6, currently 3.0
triglycerides less than 0.7, currently 1.0


So I really have to work on the LDL.

Now I'm of top of weight loss, and got my bs to where I want them, I just want to take my diet to the next stage.
There isn't a lot of information on ketosis related to HDL, LDL, levels etc, I've got reasonable figures, now I want to tweak them in the right direction.
(As far as we know what the right direction is anyway).

Sorry if I've seemed a bit pushy, no offense intended.