which is worse for our body

[ninasings]

In my particular case I have been running high ever since I was born as my mother had Gestational Diabetes whilst carrying me and so I fed on the sugar and was born at 9lbs yikes!

I am glad to hear others are debating the issue of feeding the insulin which is what I think I am doing and more insulin + resistance = more stomach blubber. I take 24 Lantus am & 26 evening, with novo Rapid before meals. Trying to do a low carb diet but the stomach keeps on growing!
Good luck everyone.

 

[IWBDF!]

Did you mean too much insulin causing a hypo, or too much insulin in a body with insulin resistance, so there is lots of insulin around but it is not doing it's job properly, ie not causing hypos but still an excessive amount in the blood. That's not good either.

yes yes that is exactly what i meant--too much insulin in the body from insulin resistance & then told to inject more insulin to get glucose readings down --so is it better to not add extra insulin by needle, when one is not taking up the insulin that we produce in our bodies in the first place---or is it better..now iv'e forgotten my train of thought...why do they tell us to take more insulin if we are already resisting it, someone said more is needed to overcome resistance, how can this be? does two wrongs make a right... at least if my glucose is too high i can run around to help bring it down--but if i am building too much insulin up, isn't that worse? why is this so bloody confusing and why are there different opinions on this issue, very frustrating indeed...p.s. not so much worried about hypos--i wish no, just any damage from too much insulin..

Hi Sky!

This happened me too with the resistance to insulin n the docs just kept putting my insulin up, until a new doc started at my hospital diabetes clinic, who was a diabetic himself, n he put me on a different insulin as he said it was highly unlikely that my resistance to the 1 I was on would ever reverse. I was on Humulin b4 meals and Humulin Zinc for background n he changed it to Humalog and Lantus.

I noticed a immediate change when switched and dropped from taking 30units b4 meals to 5units with the Humalog, so if u do get a change, actually...just insist u get a change, start low n work ur way up to counting carbs for insulin....I mean, for eg, 1 unit of my Humalog covers 10g of carbs for me and the docs call that "a ratio of 1:1", but u may need 1.5units or 2units etc per 10g of carbs, so that would be 1.5:1 or 2:1...catch my drift? It works brilliantly for me and it's just like doing weightwatchers counting, so it's easy enough. It's called the DAPHNE program in NI, but it goes by another name in mainland UK, but google DAPHNE (Dose Adjustment something or other) and u should find it and even try to get on a course near u...think whatever it's called in mainland UK begins with a B.

HOWEVER....DON'T IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES "at least if my glucose is too high i can run around to help bring it down"!!!! U've heard of ketoacidosis, haven't u missus??? When type 1 diabetics are high (this doesn't happen in type 2 diabetics), ketones are more than likely present in ur blood...and just to clarify....they can also be present when ur a normal reading, so if feeling ill, but can't find an explanation why n BG's are fine, then u should always check ketones in ur urine (Ketodiastix available on prescription) and that may be the cause. Anyway, getting back to ketoacidosis...these are poisionous and if u do ANY sort of exercise...that could be even walking from 1 room to another in ur house....then u make these poisions travel thro ur body quicker and it's not pleasant, trust me! Ketoacidosis is the main reason diabetics with type 1 die (lethargy, no spit in ur mouth which is dehydration and vomiting are main symptons). If not admitted to hospital quick enough 2 get treated, then ur body's potassium level drops with the ketones in ur system and there is a cut off point that ur body cannot live below a certain level of potassium, so it's off outta this world for u! I think it's something like 4...mgs or whatever, I don't know, but I let a ketoacidosis episode go on too long once and nearly hit the cut off point by 0.2 when admitted n was seeing bright lights n the pearly gates! The only thing u can do if u find ketones in ur urine, but have not got to the vomiting stage, is find the nearest bed, stay put, drink loadsa water n keep BG's down till they're gone. If u start vomiting and it continues for more than 6 hours, call an ambulance! Oh such happy things that we diabetics have to deal with!! :thumbdown:

 

[phoenix]

1) If you can't reduce glucose levels by other means then insulin is a life, sight and limb saver. ; Retinopathy, kidney disease, neuropathy are caused by high glucose levels not insulin. When someone hasn't enough insulin to stop glucose rising but does still make enough to stop DKA their levels can still rise high enough to cause coma .(fortunately fairly rare as it either happens when people don't realise that they have diabetes or it goes untreated for some reason)
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-comp ... -coma.html

2) Not all people with type 2 diabetes make lots of insulin .
If someone hasn't been able to control their diabetes by all other means ie reducing resistance through exercise, through diet or a reduction of visceral fat then they probably don't make enough insulin for their needs.
They may produce lots but are extremely resistant to it .
They may have lost a lot of their insulin production over time and their beta cells no longer make enough.
They may have made less in the first place
They may not been able to increase the amount they make to counter their insulin resistance.
If other drugs don't work or are contraindicated for other reasons , they may absolutely need to take insulin to keep glucose levels down and avoid the problems mentioned in para1.

3) People in the intensive arm of the 10 year UKPDS study had HbA1cs ranging from 6.2%-8% . (some of the group took insulin and some sulphonylureas adjusted to achieve these results) In this group there was a 25% reduction in microvascular complications compared to those not treated intensively. There was a 12% reduction in risk for any diabetes related endpoint (from death to renal failure to amputation) There was no difference between the results for those on insulin and those on Sulfs . Unfortunately there was no reduction in risk for cardiovascular disease.

People taking insulin did put on weight; an average of 4kg. (ie not the huge amounts sometimes mentioned)

4) In contrast in one major recent trial (ACCORD) there was a higher death rate from CVD in those who were medicated to achieve an HbA1c of below 6%. This was thought perhaps to be due to higher doses of insulin. This now appears not to be the case, though the debate as to why this happened in this trial goes on. http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ADA/40107

5) Those who are most insulin resistant can take many 100s of units of insulin a day, sometimes thousands. These people normally have genetic types of diabetes and without the insulin will have both high glucose and also little or no body fat. These syndromes often appear when young and if other treatments don't help will use it for life.
(heres a guy who seems to have one of these syndromes though it doesn't say if he needs insulin at the moment, as a cyclist he is very fit so that would reduce the need)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... betes.html
There are others with similar conditions and they often require stronger U500 insulin. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... 40.full#F5
Most people with T2 won't need to take anywhere near these amounts but it does show that if these amounts are needed, they can be taken . ( I don't know of any long term trials, the conditions are very rare)


6) Someone mentioned Beverley Allit, she killed people by injecting with a large dose of insulin causing hypoglycaemia. Hypos are indeed the biggest problem for most people injecting insulin. Fortunately most are not severe and we are unlikely to give ourselves this type of overdose deliberately.