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why does normal Bg make me feel hypo?

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Marie4james, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. Marie4james

    Marie4james LADA · Active Member

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    Hi, sorry it's me again with some more Q's..

    I have had me glic increased yesterday as my Bg is still very erratic despite LCHF diet. Now 80mgx2.

    I've now experienced some normal Bg - pre meal 4.7 and 5.6. Why do I feel hypo when this is where the Bg should be? I have been hovering 8-15 previously. Now 4.7-12 ish.

    Also, does anyone experience temperature control problems? I get extremely cold hands and feet. But then my head/face/neck feel like a furnace!

    Marie
     
  2. satindoll

    satindoll Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Marie, it can take time for your body to adjust to the new sugar levels in your blood, what you are having are false hyop's, they will disappear as your body accepts the new levels, and well done on getting the numbers down, can't help with the sweats though, I have always had cold hands and feet since childhood rheumatic fever but attempt to keep feet warm with thermal socks and fingerless gloves.
     
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  3. Marie4james

    Marie4james LADA · Active Member

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    Ah I see. Makes sense. It's very difficult not to binge when I'm feeling shaky!

    Thank you for encouraging me on bringing my Bg down. It's felt like a thankless task changing so much when I've only seen a 3-4 difference in Bg. I think I was hoping for tight control overnight, but I suppose at least I'm going in the right direction :)

    Time to get those thick socks out!
     
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  4. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    When your numbers are coming down; especially when they're lowering quite a bit, as yours are, your body fights to try to keep it's levels where it has been comfortable for some time - thus the hypo-style symptoms.

    On the odd time I have had such an experience, or when my numbers really are too low, for me, if food is imminent, I just make myself wait for food, but if food is some way off, I'll generally have a cup of tea, with a little milk. That just nudges the bloods a little and helps your body calm down a bit, until it can be fed at the scheduled time. Everyone is different, but what I really didn't want to do is have something ultra carby, to boost my bloods, only to be really undoing the good work I had been doing.

    It is important you test when you feel like this though, because being on Gliclazide it is possible you could be having a true hypo, which could require a different approach.
     
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  5. MushyPeaBrain

    MushyPeaBrain Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Marie. You should aim to improve control gradually as sudden tight control can cause problems. I was never told this and so I developed retinopathy which could have been prevented had I been warned. I also had fake hypos when my control was improving but don't worry it will pass. Well done on getting your BG down :)
     
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  6. satindoll

    satindoll Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As the others have said hopefully it won't take long for your body to re adjust, if you are really worried do either test just to make sure you are within your levels and/or speak to your health pro's about it.
    The one joy of cold hands is that we can make superb pastry, just a shame we can't enjoy, mind I'm tempted to try some of the recipes using almond flour.
     
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  7. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    Hi,

    If you are low carbing, AND you are sure it's a 'false' hypo (your BG is still above 4mmol/L) then I should have a wee snackette.

    @AndBreathe just has a cuppa. :wideyed: Which is fantastic, probably an excellent idea, but... I'm too much of a wimp. I want/crave/need food in that situation.

    If you are like me, then I recommend you stick to your low carb principles (this is a false hypo after all), and have something low carby. Cheese, nuts, coffee with cream... They will give instant tummy filling satisfaction, but digest slowly, preventing any high/low swings.

    In my experience, shoving carb snacks into a false hypo (or even a true hypo - remember, I'm a type 2, not a type 1) is likely to cause a seesaw hyper/hypo effect that can last a few days... Mainly because I can't stop at just one tube of Pringles. :rolleyes:
     
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  8. Marie4james

    Marie4james LADA · Active Member

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    Thank you for your help everyone. I admit it was v difficult to keep my head out of the biscuit tin this afternoon!

    Tea just wasn't cutting it so I had some Greek yoghurt with some blueberries and pumpkin and sunflower seeds which settled things after a while. Def a false low as I read at 7.4 in the midst of this so really didn't want to start scoffing too much!

    Thanks for the reassurance!
     
  9. Omnipod

    Omnipod Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    its because your body is used to running high. I used to run at about 10-15 and when I got to 7 or 8, id feel hypo. Trust me.... your body will soon adapt when you start running lower. Thesedays, because im running between 4 and 9, I sometimes only feel hypo when im in my 2's. You just got to keep testing for peace of mind.
    Hopefully when this meter is out in a few weeks, your life could become easier:
    https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/
    You can test every minute without pricking
     
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  10. this is too difficult two

    this is too difficult two Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting. I never heard that before. What problems does it cause. That may explain some of the things that happened to me. Where did you hear this?
     
  11. Marie4james

    Marie4james LADA · Active Member

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    Ooh like the look of that @Omnipod, will be interested to see the cost when it come out.
     
  12. MushyPeaBrain

    MushyPeaBrain Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    @this is too difficult two I found medical research papers discussing it when I was researching to try and understand what had happened to me. The sudden tighter control of my BG triggered retinopathy in both my eyes. Some consultants/eye specialists are aware of this but many aren't.

    One study (Brinckmann-Hansen, 1988) has even shown that if the improved blood sugar control after rapid tightening of blood sugar levels is maintained for nearly 3.5 years, there is never any improvement of the initially worsened retinopathy. Presumably this means that the damage done by the initial rapid improvement in blood sugar levels will never be corrected. That study also showed that changing blood sugar levels were more damaging to the body than stable levels, even if those stable levels were higher (p. 1245). The body seems more interested in glucose homeostasis than in normal blood sugar.
    Brinckmann-Hansen compared the worsening of retinopathy in those with standard insulin therapy, multiple daily insulin injections, and with an insulin pump, and found moderate worsening in all three groups, despite the rapid tightening of hyperglycemia in the latter two groups. Three months into the study, the only group with a statistically significant worsening of retinopathy were those using the insulin pump (p. 1244, figure 2).
    Sources: F. Zaccardi, "Glycemic Risk Factors of Diabetic Vascular Complications: The Role of Glycemic Variability," Diabetes Metabolism Research and Review, vol. 25, no. 3, p. 199 (2009); O. Brinckmann-Hansen, et al, "The Response of Diabetic Retinopathy to 41 Months of Multiple Insulin Injections, Insulin Pumps, and Conventional Insulin Therapy," Archives of Ophthalmology, vol. 106, no. 69, p. 122 (1988); M. Leow and J. Wyckoff, "Under-Recognized Paradox of Neuropathy from Rapid Glycemic Control," Postgraduate Medical Journal, vol. 81, no. 952, p. 103 (2005).
     
  13. this is too difficult two

    this is too difficult two Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    That seems to contradict other fast weight loss cure your diabetes diets. It sounds more like what I have experienced though.
     
  14. MushyPeaBrain

    MushyPeaBrain Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Mind you just to add that I had been diabetic about 15 years at the point I tightened my control so was more vulnerable to complications. A new diabetic would probably have got away with it.
     
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  15. this is too difficult two

    this is too difficult two Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    And your name describes me perfectly.
     
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  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    Hi @MushyPeaBrain

    Am I right that the implication seems to be 'reduce levels gently, and you won't have the problems discussed?'

    And, did everyone in the study have similar worsening, or was it variable?

    I suppose I am asking because, if I was @marieforjames, I would be freaking out at this point, and I would be looking for reassurance...
     
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  17. this is too difficult two

    this is too difficult two Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I am freaking.
     
  18. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    The only two other people who I can think may have info on this (apart from @MushyPeaBrain ) are @Spiker and @phoenix

    Maybe they will pop in.
     
  19. MushyPeaBrain

    MushyPeaBrain Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes the aim is to reduce gradually. I went from having BG easily over 14 to suddenly having BG around 7 in the space of about 6 weeks. Had I been more aware I would have aimed to go from 14 to 10-12 then from that to 8 etc

    Basically take it slowly and steadily and don't change everything at once. Again though the chances of these complications also depends on how long you've been diabetic and your genetic set up with regards to getting problems (some diabetics seem more prone).

    Is it retinopathy you are worried about? You can take a supplement called pycnogenol which has been clinically proven to halt and even reverse early stages of retinopathy. It also helps act as a preventative alongside good BG control. I used it to save what was left of my sight. You need to take a good size dose though.
     
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  20. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    All I can add to what MushyPeaBrain says is a couple of things.
    It is worth bearing in mind that if a person has high levels and continues to have high levels, then any background retinopathy will progress anyway.
    The advice is normally that if you have been running higher levels for some time and particularly if you have some background retinopathy then it is very much more prudent to reduce levels gradually. Blood pressure, not smoking and dare I say it cholesterol levels are all also said to be important.
    Here is the link I normally give about this http://www.diabeticretinopathy.org.uk/retinopathyprogression.htm
    NB, I've now looked back at Marie's first post, I would point out though they are writing about initial levels that have been in the 9% (75mmol/mol) region for some time rather than levels of 58mmol which was Marie's initial HbA1c.

    Nevertheless, from personal experience I would still now lower things gradually. I went from an HbA1c of less 8% at official diagnosis of T1* to one of 4.9% . Loud cheers, the 4% club! At the time I thought this was the best thing to do. However, though I had no retinopathy at diagnosis , I developed background retinopathy during this period. The ophthalmologist was concerned with me developing it with an HbA1c so low . I now know that the consideration of early worsening is the reason he made me have more specialised regular checks ( had to have fluorescein angiograms each time) It was just this year , over 7 years later, that he has returned me to the normal testing regime. My vision is fine and has been thoughout . So may be he was over cautions I don't know. He's a very experienced ophthalmologist but as he said he doesn't see many people with that sort of level and he did think it was a possibility.

    Diabetes is a long term condition. Gaining control and learning how to manage it is important and it's very natural to want to do it as quickly as possible It is a cliché but it is probably better looked on as a marathon rather than a sprint. .

    * (long story, it was slow onset, I'd had it from about three years before)
     
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