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Why when newbies arrive with very high BS 20+ and go onto a Very Low Carb Diet

daddys1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,353
Location
St Neots Cambridgeshire
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi All,

I would like to get this clear in my mind, why is it when we have Newbies or even Oldies coming back to us with very high Blood Sugars say 20+ and they move very quickly onto a 'Low Carb Diet' say down to 50carbs per day, it does it seem to take a while, sometimes weeks before their Pre Meal BS & Post meal levels drop to low levels, say under 7.5mmol/L

I understand to some degree the Fasting reading may stay high, as this is the Liver giving up Glycogen to the levels it did pre low carb diet and that adjustment may take a while to drop.

If we are Low Carbing, where is the Liver getting it's Glycogen reserves?

I want to understand why, if we are not putting the Carbs in our diet for conversion to Glucose at each meal why the numbers do not fall rapidly?, apart from the fasting that is.

Neil
 
i must be lucky i supose,,,,my sugars fell from 30 odd after food to 5 or 6 after food after 1 week lo carb,,,,must b just lucky
 
I wonder if it is because some aren't doing it properly? Just cutting out major carbs and not replacing with anything else, not taking account of hidden carbs, portion control not quite right, too much protein, not adding some exercise, thinking some foods are OK because they aren't testing at the right times, not enough water, other medications, or incorrect diabetic medication doses????? I see some people doing what I call "playing" with low carb but still snacking, eating irregularly, missing meals, too many treats.

We are all capable of fooling ourselves. Or maybe there is a scientific reason, but if there is I don't know about it.
 
Almost everything we eat is home made and I like to think I have a good understanding of food and nutrition, so there were very few mistakes and slip ups when we went low carb.. Perhaps this is why, in my husband's case, his blood sugars DID fall very rapidly indeed, after starting low carb. I'm inclined to agree with @Bluetit1802 , if your numbers don't fall, the carbs must be creeping in somehow.
Sally
 
I'm guessing portion sizes, too much protein, too many carbs given the state of their diabetes... I've noticed some say they've cut down but are still having more carbs than I manage nine months on after shifting the bulk of my weight. I'm not saying this to crow but to point out that while one slice of bread may indeed be a drastic reduction , or muesli instead of cornflakes with a sugar mountain, they are still a carb too far. My diagnostic HbA1c was 8.6 so I must have been throwing some significant highs but five days later when my meter arrived I was running in the sixes at 2hrs just by being really strict with myself. I found it the best way to cut the carb cravings and lose the weight. Doing so has enabled me to now cope with a small slice of spelt toast with my breakfast or the odd few chips at pub quiz. I think when you are starting out you fall into one of two camps - those that realise change is needed and embrace it and those who try to change by tinkering round the edges. Most of the latter group seem to shift to the former camp pretty quickly when they see the readings on their meters.
 

Good Grief you 'Pop Up Everywhere' Bluetit, is there not a corner of this forum you haven't found yet .

On a more serious note, I have asked the question because I feel or think the same as you, that often people are just not doing it right, even though they may think they are and often fooling themselves.

I must say, I had not thought of some of the points you raise, like "aren't testing at the right times, not enough water, other medications, or incorrect diabetic medication doses" & "eating irregularly, missing meals, too many treats".

I personally feel it's still people taking in the carbs through whatever method, but I am hoping someone does come up with a scientific reason. It's just when you are giving people advice and it appears nothing is really working you do wonder what is happening.

Thanks Bluetit
 
If you are overweight and go on to low-carb then it will take some time for the body to burn off stored fat which will no doubt affect the speed at which blood sugar falls
 
Thank you Sally & James, this was my initial thinking, I hoping someone does have a scientific answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ive measured in the 6s consistently today. Been doing lchf since 19 feb. Also unexpectedly lost 1 stone 4 lb since then too!
 
Is there any correlation between T1s and T2s and the rate at which BS comes down? Are T1s generally used to carb counting before they embark on a low-carb diet, and therefore know the ropes from the start?
As a T2 I sometimes feel I'm missing something that everyone else takes for granted. In fact I obviously am, since I can't remember when I last had bread, rice, pasta or a spud and I long ago gave up sweets, puddings, cakes and biscuits, but my HbA1c is drifting downwards rather than plunging. It's fine by me but should I be calculating those carbs properly?
Er, I'm having a lot of home-made curry later guys, so an rnsr would be appreciated
 
Daibell said:
If you are overweight and go on to low-carb then it will take some time for the body to burn off stored fat which will no doubt affect the speed at which blood sugar falls
Click to expand...
James was "obese" at diagnosis. The journey through being "overweight" to "normal weight" took several months. The low-carb induced reductions in blood sugar to "normal" levels, took place over little more than a week. I am, of course, talking about spot readings, fasting, pre and post meal, not HbA1c, which dropped from diagnosis, 75, to three months later, 36, as far as I can remember, without looking it up.
While James is only one case, I find Daibell's explanation unlikely. Assuming that you put no more, or very little more, sugars into your system, it's just a matter of how fast your available insulin and insulin/sugar take up are able to deal with the backlog. My understanding is that the body, given half a chance, prefers to take the easy option of going for the sugars, before it begins to process stored fats, so being a bit on the chubby side, shouldn't stop blood sugar levels falling.
Sally
 
Well, no-one has yet come forward with any scientific evidence, and it seems we are so far all in agreement. In the absence of other medical conditions, do low carb properly and it will work. Sugar levels will come right down and quickly. Play about with it and fool yourself, and they won't.
 

Hi Cold Ethyl, It appears there are maybe 2 camps as you suggest, those that succeed straight away and get there numbers down quickly, but some seem very convincing that they are doing everything when they are questioned, yet their numbers do not move as quickly as you would expect.

I'm just trying to get it clear in my mind what is actually going on and whether there is any science behind the slow numbers.

Thanks for the input.
Neil
 
Daibell said:
If you are overweight and go on to low-carb then it will take some time for the body to burn off stored fat which will no doubt affect the speed at which blood sugar falls
Click to expand...

Hi Daibell,
Thank you for replying, It does appear when we have someone who is overweight, maybe Obese, that it does take longer for the sugars to drop, but I want to know why.
My understanding is, if you go on a Low Carb Diet say 50 carbs per day, they say you start to move into ketosis, where your body slows or stops using 'Carbs converted to glucose' and starts using fat, turning the fat to ketones and the body using the ketones for energy, I don't fully understand it but I think I'm correct that the Glycogen stores also become depleted in the liver, which would also suggest that there should not be the spikes we see like the 'Dawn Phenomenon', so I am not certain as to how or when you are fatter than the norm why the numbers would take longer to drop.

Neil
 
Thanks again Sally, I think you have explained it very well and obviously accurate as James did it.
Cheers
 
Muggle71 said:
Ive measured in the 6s consistently today. Been doing lchf since 19 feb. Also unexpectedly lost 1 stone 4 lb since then too!
Click to expand...

Well what can I say Muggle71 that's just how we expect it to go, I'm very pleased for you, you have obviously done everything that has been suggested to you. Really well done you must be pleased.

You mention you have lost 1st 4 lbs in the process, am I allowed to ask, what is the state of your weight? BMI, feel free to say no,.

Thank you for the contribution.
Neil
 
I was 18stone when I started on 19 feb. First weigh in at boots on 24 feb was 17stone. BMI 42. Next weigh in was 28 feb, 16 stone 10lb BMI 41.6
Still an enormous journey ahead of me but off to a cracking start. I joined slimming world last year and lost only half a pound in a week , no wonder really when I see now that I was eating the exact opposite to what I should!!
 

Me too, I am making so many veg curry you would not believe.
I have cut out all bread, spuds, root veg and crisps.
That must be a step in the right direction. If it wasn't winter I would be out waliking more.
As long as I'm going in the right direction thats got to be good.
We haven't all got the time or wish to weigh every morals we eat. Also not everyone can afford to test 8 to 10 times per day.
Yes I need to work on mt portion size. But I am not fooling myself.
 
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