Why when newbies arrive with very high BS 20+ and go onto a Very Low Carb Diet

[Winnie53]

Thanks Winnie, you're an angel I'll get that book and start to do some homework, I really appreciate your reply and I'll post a new thread, cheers

That's great louisiv!

After thinking more about this, I am unsure of this information from my previous post...

As for protein, I've read a range of 0.7 to 1.5 grams protein per kilogram of lean body mass based on our activity level. To calculate lean body mass, here's one place to go... http://www.calculator.net/lean-body...&cpound=150&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60&x=40&y=15

Here's my example. I'm in my 50's, I am 5 feet 4 inches tall. I weigh 150 pounds, so my lean body mass is approximately 100 pounds according to the calculator. And 100 pounds is 45 kilograms.

45 kilograms x 0.7 grams = 31.5 grams of protein. 45 kilograms x 1.5 grams is 67.5 grams of protein. My range therefore is 31.5 - 67.5 grams of protein per day. I just realized I may still be eating too much protein though I am within this range.

Another way to do this is to use Jenny Ruhl's calculater here... http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/nutrientCalc.php

My confusion is related to the formula... Do I calculate daily protein intake using weight in kilograms or pounds, "reference weight" or "lean body mass"? And... Are there differences in my protein needs during the stages of pre-ketosis, ketosis, and maintenance?

So for the moment, I wouldn't use the formula I gave because I'm unsure of where the information came from and I'm having difficulty chasing this information down in Volek's and Phinney's book. I'll research this more over the weekend when I have more time.

Jenny Ruhl's calculator - (see link above) - would be more helpful, along with input from more experienced forum members here. I'm still learning.

 

[Weird Science]

I'd appreciate hearing the specifics of what you were doing wrong, and the changes you made.

What was I doing wrong, fooling myself that I was low carbing, being good for a few days then thinking I'll just treat myself for doing well, thus making it worse,treating my raised BG with a few more units of insulin instead of cutting out the source of the problem.
Changes:-
Watching Dr.Jason Fung on YouTube, deciding to cut my insulin full stop which is my incentive to low carb properly so I don't have to go back to injections as I am currently bored of the regime and restrictions it was placing on my routine / life, actually testing new food to make sure it doesn't raise my BG too much, I never used to eat fish just had omega 3 supplement in the morning, I'm now eating fish 3 to 4 times a week etc.. lots of green vegetables and more coconut oil.

I've been T2 for about 10 yrs, I'm only 43 and wouldn't class myself as overweight per se, I'm 6ft 7in tall and currently 15 stone, the main impetus for change apart from being rid of insulin is that my wife has just had a cancerous tumour removed from her cheek, and she is eating super healthy and researching & eating lots of food that I should eat also (although she has always eaten well and has no sweet tooth) green teas, chia seeds, soya milk, coconut water, lots of new and enjoyable experiences. Yoga for 20 mins minimum a day and starting to cycle some more.
I'm not going hardcore, I don't even weigh what I eat as that doesn't suit me, for now this seems to be working so I will stick with it for as long as I can.
Apart from fasting my BG hangs around 5.9 to 7.2 pre and post, whereas on insulin and eating wrong it would often spike up to early teens and was down to 3.3 on Christmas Eve, I hate hypos also, not nice at all very confusing! my last Hba1c was 40 mmol/ 5.8 in September 2014, just got my forms through for another test which will be raised but I'm looking forward to seeing what it will be.

That is what I have done so far and can only hope I stick to it and get it right this time, I wish you luck on your journey also and hope you achieve what you are aiming for,

All the best,
Weird Science

 

[AndBreathe]

What was I doing wrong, fooling myself that I was low carbing, being good for a few days then thinking I'll just treat myself for doing well, thus making it worse,treating my raised BG with a few more units of insulin instead of cutting out the source of the problem.
Changes:-
Watching Dr.Jason Fung on YouTube, deciding to cut my insulin full stop which is my incentive to low carb properly so I don't have to go back to injections as I am currently bored of the regime and restrictions it was placing on my routine / life, actually testing new food to make sure it doesn't raise my BG too much, I never used to eat fish just had omega 3 supplement in the morning, I'm now eating fish 3 to 4 times a week etc.. lots of green vegetables and more coconut oil.

I've been T2 for about 10 yrs, I'm only 43 and wouldn't class myself as overweight per se, I'm 6ft 7in tall and currently 15 stone, the main impetus for change apart from being rid of insulin is that my wife has just had a cancerous tumour removed from her cheek, and she is eating super healthy and researching & eating lots of food that I should eat also (although she has always eaten well and has no sweet tooth) green teas, chia seeds, soya milk, coconut water, lots of new and enjoyable experiences. Yoga for 20 mins minimum a day and starting to cycle some more.
I'm not going hardcore, I don't even weigh what I eat as that doesn't suit me, for now this seems to be working so I will stick with it for as long as I can.
Apart from fasting my BG hangs around 5.9 to 7.2 pre and post, whereas on insulin and eating wrong it would often spike up to early teens and was down to 3.3 on Christmas Eve, I hate hypos also, not nice at all very confusing! my last Hba1c was 40 mmol/ 5.8 in September 2014, just got my forms through for another test which will be raised but I'm looking forward to seeing what it will be.

That is what I have done so far and can only hope I stick to it and get it right this time, I wish you luck on your journey also and hope you achieve what you are aiming for,

All the best,
Weird Science

I'm not on meds, but could never really understand the logic of, "I've had great scores, so I can be naughty" thinking. It's akin to thinking, "Great. I've taken two steps forwards, I'd best set to making my one step backwards". I know that gross oversimplification, but it's my logic.

 

[Winnie53]

What was I doing wrong, fooling myself that I was low carbing, being good for a few days then thinking I'll just treat myself for doing well, thus making it worse,treating my raised BG with a few more units of insulin instead of cutting out the source of the problem.
Changes:-
Watching Dr.Jason Fung on YouTube, deciding to cut my insulin full stop which is my incentive to low carb properly so I don't have to go back to injections as I am currently bored of the regime and restrictions it was placing on my routine / life, actually testing new food to make sure it doesn't raise my BG too much, I never used to eat fish just had omega 3 supplement in the morning, I'm now eating fish 3 to 4 times a week etc.. lots of green vegetables and more coconut oil.

I've been T2 for about 10 yrs, I'm only 43 and wouldn't class myself as overweight per se, I'm 6ft 7in tall and currently 15 stone, the main impetus for change apart from being rid of insulin is that my wife has just had a cancerous tumour removed from her cheek, and she is eating super healthy and researching & eating lots of food that I should eat also (although she has always eaten well and has no sweet tooth) green teas, chia seeds, soya milk, coconut water, lots of new and enjoyable experiences. Yoga for 20 mins minimum a day and starting to cycle some more.
I'm not going hardcore, I don't even weigh what I eat as that doesn't suit me, for now this seems to be working so I will stick with it for as long as I can.
Apart from fasting my BG hangs around 5.9 to 7.2 pre and post, whereas on insulin and eating wrong it would often spike up to early teens and was down to 3.3 on Christmas Eve, I hate hypos also, not nice at all very confusing! my last Hba1c was 40 mmol/ 5.8 in September 2014, just got my forms through for another test which will be raised but I'm looking forward to seeing what it will be.

That is what I have done so far and can only hope I stick to it and get it right this time, I wish you luck on your journey also and hope you achieve what you are aiming for,

All the best,
Weird Science

I'm so glad you're wife is doing well. Sounds like she's determined for you both to improve your wellness. Good for her, and good for you too.

My husband was out of town when I got the news five weeks ago that my diabetes had significantly worsened, so I persuaded him to read Gary Taubes book, Why We Are Fat: And What We Can Do About It. A week ago, he joined me on the LCHF diet to lose weight. He's now reading Gary Taubes first book, Good Calories, Bad Calories. We're both "medical geeks" so have lots to talk about now. It's fun.

My numbers are still coming down but have slowed. I'm continuing on the LCHF diet, am in ketosis, and started a vitamin supplement program today made from whole foods. I'd like to add fasting next, so your reference to Dr. Jason Fung's YouTube videos were serendipitous.

Apologies for being so direct with my question. Thanks for responding and filling in the details. I learn best from hearing people's success and failures. It's great you're doing so well now!

 

[Winnie53]

Okay, just had a good laugh. Husband, who does not have diabetes, just returned home from errands with not one but three containers of fresh fruit after completing his first week on the LCHF diet. So much for ketosis. I can see now that he's going to need some time to ease into this diet. He's already polished off half the first container.

 

[Weird Science]

I'm not on meds, but could never really understand the logic of, "I've had great scores, so I can be naughty" thinking. It's akin to thinking, "Great. I've taken two steps forwards, I'd best set to making my one step backwards". I know that gross oversimplification, but it's my logic.

Well unfortunately not all of us are as logical as you!

 

[SuzanJ]

I wonder if it is because some aren't doing it properly? Just cutting out major carbs and not replacing with anything else, not taking account of hidden carbs, portion control not quite right, too much protein, not adding some exercise, thinking some foods are OK because they aren't testing at the right times, not enough water, other medications, or incorrect diabetic medication doses????? I see some people doing what I call "playing" with low carb but still snacking, eating irregularly, missing meals, too many treats.

We are all capable of fooling ourselves. Or maybe there is a scientific reason, but if there is I don't know about it.

I tried low carb diet and it reduced my bg almost straight away but I was always hungry and found that if I had to drive anywhere I wasn't at the legal level so would add in some extra protein thinking I was doing the right thing, ha! I have only just found out about how protein pushes your bg up as well. My complaint is that there is no clear advice anywhere when you are trying to manage your bg. I have attended many sessions with dietary specialist but they never mentioned the protein factor just concentrated on carb counting. It's all such hard work, it's depressing.

 

[Winnie53]

I tried low carb diet and it reduced my bg almost straight away but I was always hungry and found that if I had to drive anywhere I wasn't at the legal level so would add in some extra protein thinking I was doing the right thing, ha! I have only just found out about how protein pushes your bg up as well. My complaint is that there is no clear advice anywhere when you are trying to manage your bg. I have attended many sessions with dietary specialist but they never mentioned the protein factor just concentrated on carb counting. It's all such hard work, it's depressing.

SuzanJ, so glad you found this forum. Keep reading. It's taken me a couple of months, but it's gotten a lot easier with the support I've received here, also from listening to experts on the LCHF diet, both online and through their books. I read this morning that the liver can convert up to 58% of protein to [?] by the liver but that it can take up to 7 hours, so you're right, protein does effect our blood glucose. More later...

 

[Winnie53]

I tried low carb diet and it reduced my bg almost straight away but I was always hungry and found that if I had to drive anywhere I wasn't at the legal level so would add in some extra protein thinking I was doing the right thing, ha! I have only just found out about how protein pushes your bg up as well. My complaint is that there is no clear advice anywhere when you are trying to manage your bg. I have attended many sessions with dietary specialist but they never mentioned the protein factor just concentrated on carb counting. It's all such hard work, it's depressing.

SuzanJ, I've not found one book that answers all my questions yet, but in the UK, Trudi Deakin's book, Eat Fat, provides a good, basic overview and is easy to read... http://www.xperthealth.org.uk/at-risk-of-diabetes/a-step-by-step-guide-to-low-carb-living

My favorite books for type 2 diabetics that I refer to the most are...

Blood Sugar 101: What They Don't Tell You About Diabetes by Jenny Ruhl - (This is the book I wish I'd read first. I learned more from this book than any other. It's full of research based information, hard won wisdom, and lots of practical strategies.)

Diet 101: The Truth About Low Carb Diets: What Science Can Tell Us About the Strengths and Weaknesses of the Controvercial Diet that Controls Blood Sugar: The Facts You Need to Customize Your Diet for Lifelong Success by Jenny Ruhl - (This book builds on the first book).

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide To Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable by Jeff S. Volek, Ph.D. R.D. and Stephen D. Phinney, M.D., Ph.D. - (When I'm stuck and trying to figure something out, this book has a reasonably good index. For now I'm using it as a reference and tabbing the pages).

The first book I read, that introduced me to and got me started on the LCHF diet was Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution by Richard K. Bernstein, M.D. - (A classic. More geared to type 1 diabetics, but helpful for type 2's too. I like his discussion about how to do the diet and make adjustments as you go, also his food lists. There's a lot more too. I use this book as a reference too. Learn from Dr. Bernstein by watching his YouTube videos here... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuJ11OJynsvHMsN48LG18Ag )

This calculator - (someone here told me about it) - was helpful in figuring out things like how much carbs, fat, and protein I needed... http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/DietMakeupCalc.php

I also like this website a lot. I still exploring it... http://www.dietdoctor.com/

I know you're frustrated. I was too, but much less so now. Reading one book might be a good place to start. Or spending time on DietDoctor.com perhaps. This is my favorite interview from the DietDoctor.com site...

 

[Brunneria]

@Winnie53 and @SuzanJ

You may also find it interesting to have a look at the Diabetes Miracle book.
It is a regime created by a diabetic dietician. She suggests that if we go strictly low carb (with specific instructions about timing and exactly what we can and cannot eat), then we can rest our pancreas, allowing it to recover much of its capacity. Then, with a very slow and controlled re-entry to some carb eating, we can go back to a more normal way of eating. the carb re-introduction allows us to discover exactly what our own, rested, body can tolerate.

I tried it, and found it was a great regime that did my body a lot of good.
It was just unfortunate that my personal carb limit is lower than most.

But I heartily recommend the book and for an investment of 8 weeks of your time, I think it is a great education in how YOUR body works.

The book title and author details are in my sig. ITs available on Kindle too. And no, I ain't on commission!

 

[Winnie53]

Brunneria, I wish there was a "Really, really like" button I could click for what you just shared with me. My fasting blood glucose (BG) readings are good most days, but my 2-hour post meal BG readings are good for a few days, then bad for a day or part of a day. Don't know if it's a beta cell problem, insulin resistant problem, or, likely, both. Something's wrong. Because I have no organ or eye damage at this time and my blood glucose is under 140 mg/dL (7.8 mmol/L) 75% of the time now, I feel I have more time to do diet alone. I'm very interested in getting that book. Going to order it today.

 

[Brunneria]

The most important thing I got out of doing the Diabetes Miracle programme for 8 weeks was the extent that my body cannot tolerate grains.

After 8 weeks of really strict low carb, introducing an absurdly small amount of wheat sent my poor system into meltdown - and I would never have spotted it, without that lovely steady period of 'no aggro'.

A secondary, and very disappointing thing I learned was that I have a MUCH lower tolerance for carbs than most. with my BG spiking RIDICULOUSLY at things that I could not believe contained enough carbs to trigger such a reaction.

But it is all good info, and it told me what I was working with... so I can't complain. It has helped tremendously, and I use what I learned every day.

 

[arthurmo]

Hello, this is my first post since finding the site so please excuse the waffle. I've been t2 for about 2 years and am on metforminin 4x500 a day and januvia. I got it under control and then foolishly thought job done back to the good life and stuck my head firmly in the sand. After a shock last week I measured my Sugar and it was @ 16.4 after my evening meal and 14.1 in the morning. I've been on lchf for a week allowing 30g of carbs daily and am struggling to convince myself to go full fat on everything and drink enough water. A HBA test just back was 99 and apparently termed out of control.

The good news is my readings in the evening after a meal are 6.7 and in the morning is 8.1. I've not shifted any weight yet but it's still early day's.I'm posting this here as it's been a very helpful thread. I was really worried about my near sight being blurry but have seen others mention it,also there's a whole load of people with different issues working through at different speeds. It's a lot to take in I thought I'd just get my levels down first work on my weight and then panic about these beta things later but I must say this forum has surprised me by how much encouragement and knowledge is shared.
So cheers*

* yeah yeah low carb beer if only!

 

[Brunneria]

Hello, this is my first post since finding the site so please excuse the waffle. I've been t2 for about 2 years and am on metforminin 4x500 a day and januvia. I got it under control and then foolishly thought job done back to the good life and stuck my head firmly in the sand. After a shock last week I measured my Sugar and it was @ 16.4 after my evening meal and 14.1 in the morning. I've been on lchf for a week allowing 30g of carbs daily and am struggling to convince myself to go full fat on everything and drink enough water. A HBA test just back was 99 and apparently termed out of control.

The good news is my readings in the evening after a meal are 6.7 and in the morning is 8.1. I've not shifted any weight yet but it's still early day's.I'm posting this here as it's been a very helpful thread. I was really worried about my near sight being blurry but have seen others mention it,also there's a whole load of people with different issues working through at different speeds. It's a lot to take in I thought I'd just get my levels down first work on my weight and then panic about these beta things later but I must say this forum has surprised me by how much encouragement and knowledge is shared.
So cheers*

* yeah yeah low carb beer if only!

Well done!

Looks like you are getting your BG nicely under control

 

[Winnie53]

@Winnie53 and @SuzanJ

You may also find it interesting to have a look at the Diabetes Miracle book.
It is a regime created by a diabetic dietician. She suggests that if we go strictly low carb (with specific instructions about timing and exactly what we can and cannot eat), then we can rest our pancreas, allowing it to recover much of its capacity. Then, with a very slow and controlled re-entry to some carb eating, we can go back to a more normal way of eating. the carb re-introduction allows us to discover exactly what our own, rested, body can tolerate.

I tried it, and found it was a great regime that did my body a lot of good.
It was just unfortunate that my personal carb limit is lower than most.

But I heartily recommend the book and for an investment of 8 weeks of your time, I think it is a great education in how YOUR body works.

The book title and author details are in my sig. ITs available on Kindle too. And no, I ain't on commission!

I'm so glad this topic was bumped back up. I received the book, The Diabetes Miracle by Diane Kress, RD, CDE, a week or two ago, and couldn't remember why I ordered it. Now that I've been reminded of how helpful you found it Brunneria, it's back on my reading pile. It appears that I also don't tolerate carbs well. Time will tell.