Type 2 Why?

Welcome @Chouie1

Let me tag @daisy1 as she has some basic information.

Are you in any meds? What are your blood test results like?

The issue with carbs is also that they raise blood sugar.

There's a lot of dietary advice out there and a lot of it doesn't relate well to diabetics. Whilst losing weight is fine up to a point, the low carb diet isn't necessarily a weight-loss diet, it's about your blood glucose level. Keeping this low enough will probably prevent most of the affects of diabetes.

Having said that, many people, myself included, do find that it's easier to lose weight, possibly because you don't feel as hungry.

Chouie1 said:

I am 5ft 4in and weigh 9stone which is not overweight so why do I have to worry about carbs? Everything seems to be about losing weight.

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Losing weight helps with your insulin resistance.
Insulin resistance causes more insulin which mostly goes around your organs as visceral fat. This creates higher average blood glucose levels.
Even thin diabetics get visceral fat.
Lowering your carbs, reducing your plate size and exercising a little more even if it's walking will help you control your blood glucose levels.
A carb laden dish can't do that!

I can relate to this Chule1 as I am 5 ft 2 and around 8 stones. There could be various reasons why your blood sugar is elevated. My readings in the last few days have been exceptional and I attribute that to stopping a drug called Propranolol which is known to be hyperglycaemic.

Yes people here are going on about adopting an LCHF diet and I believe from doing a little research that it's fine for less than a year but ultimately your health can suffer. Ketosis is possible especially in insulin users.

I read that 50 gms daily is the minimum amount of carbohydrates you should eat on a LCHF diet.

Speak with a dietitian.

asparagusp said:

I can relate to this Chule1 as I am 5 ft 2 and around 8 stones. There could be various reasons why your blood sugar is elevated. My readings in the last few days have been exceptional and I attribute that to stopping a drug called Propranolol which is known to be hyperglycaemic.

Yes people here are going on about adopting an LCHF diet and I believe from doing a little research that it's fine for less than a year but ultimately your health can suffer. Ketosis is possible especially in insulin users.

I read that 50 gms daily is the minimum amount of carbohydrates you should eat on a LCHF diet.

Speak with a dietitian.

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Don't mean to be argumentative but I've been very low carb for three years now and my health has never been better. All my life signs are in the normal range.
There are so many people permanently in ketosis that what you say doesn't make sense.
Yes, we do need a certain amount of glucose for our brain but how much?
If we are in hypo, because of hyperinsulinaemia, where does the glucose come from to get our bodies awake, there are glucagon and glycogen stores in your liver.
Only when those reserves are depleted do we need to get quick fasting glucose into our bodies.
I am literally on as low as 20 gms of carbs a day and all of that is from salad vegetables or meat. All very low carb!
I fast a lot! So where does the 50gms of carbs necessary come from?

I think you need not to talk to a dietician but resource keto websites and find out what they do. Or test and trial yourself. Like I did!

Maybe you and others are the exceptions and I am only going by what I have read, Everyone is different of course and with different dietary needs. One thing for sure I do not want ketosis.

PS Do you suffer from constipation?

@Chouie1

Hello and welcome to the forum Here is the information we give to new members and I hope it will be useful to you. Ask more questions when you want and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 210,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

asparagusp said:

Maybe you and others are the exceptions and I am only going by what I have read, Everyone is different of course and with different dietary needs. One thing for sure I do not want ketosis.

PS Do you suffer from constipation?

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I think you mean you don't want ketoacidosis which is different to nutritional ketosis.

Also most people following a ketogenic diet have less than 20g of carbs per day and function well on this amount.

asparagusp said:

Maybe you and others are the exceptions and I am only going by what I have read, Everyone is different of course and with different dietary needs. One thing for sure I do not want ketosis.

PS Do you suffer from constipation?

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No!
There is nothing wrong with being in ketosis, it is your body's natural ability to sustain itself when no food is around!
Some diabetics can't do ketosis or fasting. That's normal as well.

What you have read is probably the same advice given to diabetics that you have to have an 'eatwell' plate of carbs which is causing so much damage to diabetics.

Do please, read the success stories forum threads, there are lots and lots of posters that have been successful on a low carb diet less than 50gms.
We are not either the exception or becoming the exception. We are becoming the norm! There has been so much media reporting on how successful low carb has become for so many people, our own @Southport GP has had recently a paper published in the Lancet on how he is saving a lot of money, not dispensing diabetic meds, because the patients who did the diet test on low carb improved so much.
Low carb works, it is the only diet that does for a lot of diabetics because your not eating a lot of useless carbs and sugars.

There is an awful lot of science out there that backs my way of eating!
There is only advice on your suggestions. Definitely not backed up by science!

Best wishes!

I'll answer a couple of points here if I may, @Chouie1 .

When I was diagnosed, I weighed more than I do now, but by that I mean I had luuuurve handles. I wasn't massively heavy. Certainly at 9st (I assumed exactly 9st to do the calc), you are slam-bang mid Healthy range for BMI. However, I would argue that everything isn't necessarily about weight. It can play a part, but with this condition there are few hard and fast rules.

When diagnosed, 3 years ago, there seemed to be less emphasis on losing weight, and I decided at the outset that my only goal was to bring my blood numbers down. I didn't set out to consider weight at all. Indeed, I didn't weigh myself for almost 4 months, post-diagnosis.

I considered (and still do) T2 Diabetes to be an inability to metabolise foods, efficiently. Those whose metabolism is spot on, don't have high blood numbers. So, it struck me I had to figure it out for myself; especially as I was about to go off on a very long trip overseas. Timing, eh?

I began finger prick testing, for a couple of reasons. Firstly to see what happened too my blood numbers as I ate and drank, and to pinpoint anything causing me issues, and secondly, as a reassurance that things weren't going catastrophically wrong, whilst thousands of miles from home.

When I began testing, and recording what I was eating, it became clear to me that lots of carbs were causing me high bloods, so I started trimming them back portions or excluding them altogether, depending on the scale of the blood number issue. Once I was doing that, my numbers started coming back towards where they needed to be. My clothes got a bit roomier around this time too, even without trying.

For me, I have taught myself what I needed to to, and I have continue on that theme since. Over time, as I really wanted to stop trimming, I added a bit more fat to my diet. By that I don't mean great dollops of lard or other unpalatable options. I mean, butter on veg, full fat dairy produce, including cheese. You get the basic drift?

If you don't already, I would suggest you start finger prick testing and you will very quickly get some clues to what you need to do.

I have been eating as I am now for going on 3 years and my recent bloods were all in good shape, so, for now, I'll stick with what works for me. I don't take any medication (for diabetes or anything else) whatsoever and I never have.

I hope you manage to find a way to move forward without too many troubles.

There are other reasons that cause blood sugar to rise - illness/stress for one, statins, anti bionics, beta blockers ..... Whether I have a couple of seeded organic oatcakes with my unsweetened organic cocoa makes no difference to my numbers.

asparagusp said:

There are other reasons that cause blood sugar to rise - illness/stress for one, statins, anti bionics, beta blockers ..... Whether I have a couple of seeded organic oatcakes with my unsweetened organic cocoa makes no difference to my numbers.

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Yes, there are many others than the ones you have quoted.
However they will be smaller spikes than you would get from having a carb laden meal. It all adds up!
I have no tolerance for any grains or organic milk, cocoa in a drink like you describe would have my blood glucose levels rocket.
But, by only testing would you find out how much you can tolerate and you may be less tolerant.
By experimenting and experience and keeping a food diary can you really discover how you react to food or drinks. But in general it is more likely to be hidden carbs or sugars that spike you and keep your Hba1c higher than it should be.

Everyone is different but one thing that is glaringly obvious in most diabetics is the effect carbs can have on your BS.

asparagusp said:

Maybe you and others are the exceptions and I am only going by what I have read, Everyone is different of course and with different dietary needs. One thing for sure I do not want ketosis.

PS Do you suffer from constipation?

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You really do need to do some research. Ketosis and ketoacidosis are two different things. Ketoacidosis is dangerous and happens to type 1 diabetics because they have no insulin. Ketosis is a natural way for the body to run when food supplies are limited. I eat less than 20 grams carb per day and have done that for years at a time. I am in mild ketosis and I am fine. No constipation, if anything I lean the other way. As to the origional post, a low carb diet will control your blood sugars. If you do not want or neede to lose weight then you simply eat more calories to maintain. There are quite a few on the forum that are on a weight maintenance low carb diet to keep the diabetes under control.

Chouie1 said:

I am 5ft 4in and weigh 9stone which is not overweight so why do I have to worry about carbs? Everything seems to be about losing weight.

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When carbohydrates are digested, they break down to form glucose which is absorbed from the gut into the bloodstream. As others have already said, some people follow low carb diets to help them control their blood glucose. By replacing the calories from carbohydrate with the same number of calories from fat, someone could reduce their blood glucose without losing weight.

However, Professor Roy Taylor is researching the idea that we each have a personal "fat threshold" above which we become Type 2 diabetic. For some people this might not occur until they are morbidly obese, for others it might occur when they move from "low normal" BMI to "high normal". The normal range is 18.5 - 24.9. It might be possible for someone to be diabetic with a BMI of 21 but not with a BMI of 19. A height of 5 ft 4 and 9 stone works out as a BMI of 21.6. On the other hand, some normal-weight "type 2" actually have a hereditary form of diabetes and this wouldn't apply to them.