Fatty Liver

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Hi @letstalk1 - were you told to lose the weight slowly around 2lb a week? Losing weight far too quickly can make a Fatty Liver much worse.

I just had on Tuesday my 6 monthly Liver Scan. Have got repeat (6 monthly) Endoscopy and Fibroscan appointments to follow shortly and masses of Blood Tests. (Not surprised I have Iron Deficiency Aneamia with the monthly Blood Tests I have done for an assortment of Health Issues).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: letstalk1

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,668
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi @letstalk1 - were you told to lose the weight slowly around 2lb a week? Losing weight far too quickly can make a Fatty Liver much worse.

I just had on Tuesday my 6 monthly Liver Scan. Have got reapeat (6 monthly) Endoscopy and Fibroscan appointments to follow shortly.
Hi @Liam1955

Interested in your comment about losing weight too quickly making fatty liver much worse. Do you know of any research links on this, please? In my own experience rapid weight loss resulted in loss of visceal fat, verified by surgeon who had a good rummage through my innards. He told me my liver was looking perfect. Though perhaps I had not had fatty liver to begin with. I never asked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liam1955

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Hi @Pipp - No, Sorry don't know of any links. But, I did look up on the Internet: Losing weight too quickly can make Fatty Liver worse. (check it out)
The Hepatologist who I saw recently (see him every 4 months) actually told me that it can make Fatty Liver worse with a lot of weight suddenly lost, and to lose it slowly at 2lb a week.
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,668
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi @Pipp - No, Sorry don't know of any links. But, I did look up on the Internet: Losing weight too quickly can make Fatty Liver worse. (check it out)
The Hepatologist who I saw recently (see him every 4 months) actually told me that it can make Fatty Liver worse with a lot of weight suddenly lost, and to lose it slowly at 2lb a week.
Thanks, @Liam1955 . It does seem at odds with the Newcastle diet method, so I will do a bit of searching.
Just demonstrates that we all need to look at all the facts before making informed decisions on diets and methods of controlling T2, and applying knowledge to our own individual, unique circumstances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liam1955

Annb

Expert
Messages
7,369
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi @letstalk1 - were you told to lose the weight slowly around 2lb a week? Losing weight far too quickly can make a Fatty Liver much worse.

I just had on Tuesday my 6 monthly Liver Scan. Have got repeat (6 monthly) Endoscopy and Fibroscan appointments to follow shortly and masses of Blood Tests. (Not surprised I have Iron Deficiency Aneamia with the monthly Blood Tests I have done for an assortment of Health Issues).

I was only told not to bother trying to lose weight, that it was impossible for a diabetic on insulin.

Ann
 

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
I was only told not to bother trying to lose weight, that it was impossible for a diabetic on insulin.

Ann

Hi @Annb - I am also on Insulin and other Diabetic Tablets and have managed to reduce my Insulin from 48 units to 36 units daily - it's taken me almost 8 months though.
But, what we have to bear in mind is = we are all different and what works for one person, may not work for another person.
I am guided by the Hepatologist and Diabetologist at the Hospital, some of their suggestions, and being honest - I don't always follow! :)
 

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Thanks, @Liam1955 . It does seem at odds with the Newcastle diet method, so I will do a bit of searching.
Just demonstrates that we all need to look at all the facts before making informed decisions on diets and methods of controlling T2, and applying knowledge to our own individual, unique circumstances.

I would be interested to know @Pipp if you find anymore interesting information on Fatty Liver and post it = Please :).
 

letstalk1

Well-Known Member
Messages
308
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Hi @letstalk1 - were you told to lose the weight slowly around 2lb a week? Losing weight far too quickly can make a Fatty Liver much worse.

I just had on Tuesday my 6 monthly Liver Scan. Have got repeat (6 monthly) Endoscopy and Fibroscan appointments to follow shortly and masses of Blood Tests. (Not surprised I have Iron Deficiency Aneamia with the monthly Blood Tests I have done for an assortment of Health Issues).
I have never been told that , thanks for asking Liam-- Im Joy
 

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Pretty sure this is the liver shrinking diet I followed for the week or two leading up to my Roux-En-Y bypass:-
DIET THREE – MENU IDEAS

It is important to have 3 meals a day with 1-2 snacks if required

Breakfast Choices

1 small glass pure fruit juice (150ml) – orange, apple, pineapple, cranberry

(only 1 small glass of pure juice per day)

or 1piece of sliced fruit on a breakfast cereal

With

Small bowl (35g) unsweetened cereal with 150ml skimmed or semi skimmed milk from allowance

All cereals can be sweetened with granulated artificial sweetener if necessary

Good cereals to choose from are:-

 Weetabix

 Plain porridge, loose or sachet,



avoid flavoured porridges which have added sugar

 Bran Flakes – avoid choices with died fruit and nuts



 Shreddies – original only, avoid the frosted, chocolate or honey coated choices



 Shredded Wheat – 1 large biscuit or bite size, original only, avoid honey nut choices or any options containing dried fruit



 All Bran – original choice only



 Special K – original choice only



Avoid all cereals which are coated with sugar/honey/yogurt/chocolate/coco or with frosting, or have dried fruit. Also avoid muesli and granola, even low sugar versions. All of these choices are very high in sugar and could affect your blood sugar levels

Avoid breakfast biscuits and bars as these can also be high in sugar.

or

2 slices of wholemeal or granary bread/toast (from a 400g loaf) with a thin scraping of low fat spread

Do not add any jam/marmalade/lemon curd/chocolate spread/peanut butter to bread

Lunch Choices

2 slice of wholemeal bread (from a 400g loaf)

or 4 wholegrain/whole wheat crackers e.g. Ryvita or similar crispbreads.

or 1 medium soft Tortilla, preferably wholemeal

or 1 small wholemeal pitta bread

No spread such as butter or margarine, even low fat options

With

1 medium slice of ham, beef, chicken

or 80g low fat fish e.g. tuna in spring water or brine – not oil

or 80g fat free cottage cheese – natural or onion and chive, avoid pineapple

or 1 egg, boiled or scrambled with small amount of semi skimmed milk and cooked without fat

Serve with a raw salad

This could contain a mix of lettuce, cucumber, radishes, tomatoes, red and yellow peppers, grated carrot, and celery

Salad dressing – any bought fat free salad dressing, 15ml only, or balsamic vinegar

Avoid any dressing containing oil, cream, cheese or mayonnaise

Or

200g low calorie vegetable soup – preferably home made.

If using a bought soup from a tin or carton try to avoid soups containing potatoes, or pulses including beans, peas and lentils

With 1 slice ham or beef or chicken or 80g fat free cottage cheese or 80g low fat fish

and

2 slice wholemeal bread or 4 wholemeal/wholegrain crackers – no spread

Dinner Choices

Small portion of meat or chicken or fish (80g) – cooked without fat

e.g. sliced ham or beef, skinless chicken breast (avoid the brown meat)

low fat white fish such as tuna, cod, haddock

or Quorn, plain pieces or minced only

With

2 small potatoes – jacket or boiled (120g)

or 4 tablespoons boiled rice

or 4 tablespoons pasta, preferably wholemeal

With

3 to 4 tablespoons vegetables

e.g. carrots, turnip, onions, leeks, parsnips, broccoli, cabbage

avoid peas, beans, lentils, or sweetcorn

or small side dish of salad

e.g. lettuce, cucumber, peppers, radishes, tomatoes, spring onions, beetroot, carrots

– add oil free low calorie dressing if required (15ml)

avoid peas, beans, lentils, or sweetcorn

Or

Homemade vegetable soup – 300g maximum

or 300g tinned or chilled carton soup which does not contain potatoes, sweetcorn, or pulses such as beans, peas or lentils

With

40g meat/chicken/fish – cooked without fat

e.g. sliced ham or beef, skinless chicken breast (avoid the brown meat)

low fat white fish such as tuna, cod, haddock

or Quorn, plain pieces or minced only

and

2 slice of wholemeal bread (from a 400g loaf) or 4 wholegrain/whole wheat crackers e.g. Ryvita or similar crispbreads

Daily

 ½ pint skimmed or semi skimmed milk for use with cereals or in drinks

 1 fat free diet natural or fruit flavoured yogurt (max 150g/d)

 2 portions of fruit (this is in addition to the glass of fruit juice or piece of fruit recommended to have with breakfast)



e.g. medium sized apple, orange, pear, banana, peach, nectarine

small handful of strawberries, blackberries, cherries, blueberries

tinned fruit in natural juice is acceptable but drain off all juice (160g max)

Fat free Yogurt and fruit from allowance can be combined to make a snack e.g. chopped banana and yogurt, or eaten separately either between meals or after meals as a pudding

Drinks

2L of fluid per day is recommended. This is the amount you will be required to drink after your bariatric surgery, and in the longer term to avoid constipation and promote weight

loss. We strongly advise patients to get into the habit of drinking adequate amounts of fluid before surgery

Recommended daily fluid intake does not need to be solely from water, although this liquid will hydrate you the best

Choose from the following:-

 Water – tap, bottled, still or carbonated* - flavoured water is acceptable but check labels to ensure that it is sugar free

 Tea – all types including black and green teas and flavoured teas

 Coffee – all types including caffeinated and de-caffeinated – avoid Coffee Mate even the low sugar/fat varieties

 Sugar Free Squashes – all flavours

 Sugar free fizzy drinks* – e.g. Diet Coke, Pepsi Max, diet lemonade



*At this stage these drinks are acceptable however following any bariatric surgery they are not recommended as they can cause trapped gas so try and reduce the amount you have in the follow up to surgery

Think the above is what you are looking for @Contralto from @buckmr2
 

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Pretty sure this is the liver shrinking diet I followed for the week or two leading up to my Roux-En-Y bypass:-
DIET THREE – MENU IDEAS

It is important to have 3 meals a day with 1-2 snacks if required

Breakfast Choices

1 small glass pure fruit juice (150ml) – orange, apple, pineapple, cranberry

(only 1 small glass of pure juice per day)

or 1piece of sliced fruit on a breakfast cereal

With

Small bowl (35g) unsweetened cereal with 150ml skimmed or semi skimmed milk from allowance

All cereals can be sweetened with granulated artificial sweetener if necessary

Good cereals to choose from are:-

 Weetabix

 Plain porridge, loose or sachet,



avoid flavoured porridges which have added sugar

 Bran Flakes – avoid choices with died fruit and nuts



 Shreddies – original only, avoid the frosted, chocolate or honey coated choices



 Shredded Wheat – 1 large biscuit or bite size, original only, avoid honey nut choices or any options containing dried fruit



 All Bran – original choice only



 Special K – original choice only



Avoid all cereals which are coated with sugar/honey/yogurt/chocolate/coco or with frosting, or have dried fruit. Also avoid muesli and granola, even low sugar versions. All of these choices are very high in sugar and could affect your blood sugar levels

Avoid breakfast biscuits and bars as these can also be high in sugar.

or

2 slices of wholemeal or granary bread/toast (from a 400g loaf) with a thin scraping of low fat spread

Do not add any jam/marmalade/lemon curd/chocolate spread/peanut butter to bread

Lunch Choices

2 slice of wholemeal bread (from a 400g loaf)

or 4 wholegrain/whole wheat crackers e.g. Ryvita or similar crispbreads.

or 1 medium soft Tortilla, preferably wholemeal

or 1 small wholemeal pitta bread

No spread such as butter or margarine, even low fat options

With

1 medium slice of ham, beef, chicken

or 80g low fat fish e.g. tuna in spring water or brine – not oil

or 80g fat free cottage cheese – natural or onion and chive, avoid pineapple

or 1 egg, boiled or scrambled with small amount of semi skimmed milk and cooked without fat

Serve with a raw salad

This could contain a mix of lettuce, cucumber, radishes, tomatoes, red and yellow peppers, grated carrot, and celery

Salad dressing – any bought fat free salad dressing, 15ml only, or balsamic vinegar

Avoid any dressing containing oil, cream, cheese or mayonnaise

Or

200g low calorie vegetable soup – preferably home made.

If using a bought soup from a tin or carton try to avoid soups containing potatoes, or pulses including beans, peas and lentils

With 1 slice ham or beef or chicken or 80g fat free cottage cheese or 80g low fat fish

and

2 slice wholemeal bread or 4 wholemeal/wholegrain crackers – no spread

Dinner Choices

Small portion of meat or chicken or fish (80g) – cooked without fat

e.g. sliced ham or beef, skinless chicken breast (avoid the brown meat)

low fat white fish such as tuna, cod, haddock

or Quorn, plain pieces or minced only

With

2 small potatoes – jacket or boiled (120g)

or 4 tablespoons boiled rice

or 4 tablespoons pasta, preferably wholemeal

With

3 to 4 tablespoons vegetables

e.g. carrots, turnip, onions, leeks, parsnips, broccoli, cabbage

avoid peas, beans, lentils, or sweetcorn

or small side dish of salad

e.g. lettuce, cucumber, peppers, radishes, tomatoes, spring onions, beetroot, carrots

– add oil free low calorie dressing if required (15ml)

avoid peas, beans, lentils, or sweetcorn

Or

Homemade vegetable soup – 300g maximum

or 300g tinned or chilled carton soup which does not contain potatoes, sweetcorn, or pulses such as beans, peas or lentils

With

40g meat/chicken/fish – cooked without fat

e.g. sliced ham or beef, skinless chicken breast (avoid the brown meat)

low fat white fish such as tuna, cod, haddock

or Quorn, plain pieces or minced only

and

2 slice of wholemeal bread (from a 400g loaf) or 4 wholegrain/whole wheat crackers e.g. Ryvita or similar crispbreads

Daily

 ½ pint skimmed or semi skimmed milk for use with cereals or in drinks

 1 fat free diet natural or fruit flavoured yogurt (max 150g/d)

 2 portions of fruit (this is in addition to the glass of fruit juice or piece of fruit recommended to have with breakfast)



e.g. medium sized apple, orange, pear, banana, peach, nectarine

small handful of strawberries, blackberries, cherries, blueberries

tinned fruit in natural juice is acceptable but drain off all juice (160g max)

Fat free Yogurt and fruit from allowance can be combined to make a snack e.g. chopped banana and yogurt, or eaten separately either between meals or after meals as a pudding

Drinks

2L of fluid per day is recommended. This is the amount you will be required to drink after your bariatric surgery, and in the longer term to avoid constipation and promote weight

loss. We strongly advise patients to get into the habit of drinking adequate amounts of fluid before surgery

Recommended daily fluid intake does not need to be solely from water, although this liquid will hydrate you the best

Choose from the following:-

 Water – tap, bottled, still or carbonated* - flavoured water is acceptable but check labels to ensure that it is sugar free

 Tea – all types including black and green teas and flavoured teas

 Coffee – all types including caffeinated and de-caffeinated – avoid Coffee Mate even the low sugar/fat varieties

 Sugar Free Squashes – all flavours

 Sugar free fizzy drinks* – e.g. Diet Coke, Pepsi Max, diet lemonade



*At this stage these drinks are acceptable however following any bariatric surgery they are not recommended as they can cause trapped gas so try and reduce the amount you have in the follow up to surgery

@Contralto - do you see in the box the words: click to expand? Liam
 

Chook

Expert
Messages
5,095
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
People who think they know everything.
Crikey!! If I followed that diet my BG would be sky high!
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
thanks for pointing that out. I could see it. Carborific, processed foods and heyRecen is the last time I drank fruit juice straight up., I am thinking a gooHd way to kill the pancreas on the way to assisting the liver
Just to update - Received today my 6 monthly Blood Test Results for B12 = my result is: 408 (range is 197 - 771). Hepatologist is happy with this number.
He is not so happy with the Ferritin result of 26 ? For the Iron Deficiency Aneamia (In May it was 19) But, I am eating more Iron enriched foods than ever.
Appointments being arranged for repeat Endoscopy and Fibroscan. Had my 6 monthly Liver MRI Scan done yesterday.
Have they investigated you for blood loss Liam? When ferritin is too high it comes down if one donates blood twice per year. The fat emporer reckons high ferritin is a marker of CVD! When I retired early from my main career I worked for nine years in medical physics and they labelled one's blood with a radio isotope and scanned the patient with a gamma camera and found where the blood loss was by the amount of radiation in that part of the body. (It wasn't a job I did myself I worked on cancer treatment machines.) Atb Derek
 
Last edited:

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
@lindisfel - Hi Derek :).
No, I am not a Blood Donor.
Up and until now - nothing has been investigated to find out any cause of the Iron Deficiency.
I am to have Bloods done in October for Iron Binding and Blood Coagulation. Next see the Liver Specialist (4 monthly check ups) in early November.
Awaiting appointments to have an Endoscopy and a yearly Fibroscan. (Just recently had an MRI Liver Scan). William:)
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
Hi William, I hope they find a cause and get your bloods right by sorting you. I have had a couple of endoscopies and also colonoscopy. Wouldn't recommend being brave with putting the pipe down ones throat, I wasn't sedated last time and it was horrific! I'll opt to be put under next time I have it done.

I am thinking of having cardioversion done to try to stop permanent atrial fibrillation. I take pradaxa (anti-coagulant) and suspect that messes my bloods up, it would be nice to get off it. A.t.b. Derek
 

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Results of recent MRI Liver Scan show "stable appearances"? (that's all the letter says).
On 19th September having the Endoscopy done and think? I will have the Throat Spray for this procedure.

After a discussion with my GP I decided to stop the Biological Drug (the Injection was due last week) and will see there is any effect on my LFT Bloods which is to be done in October.

@lindisfel - Have you decided on the Cardioversion? And what do they do?
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
Results of recent MRI Liver Scan show "stable appearances"? (that's all the letter says).
On 19th September having the Endoscopy done and think? I will have the Throat Spray for this procedure.

After a discussion with my GP I decided to stop the Biological Drug (the Injection was due last week) and will see there is any effect on my LFT Bloods which is to be done in October.

@lindisfel - Have you decided on the Cardioversion? And what do they do?
Hi William I am still having difficulties deciding about cardioversion. The heart is stopped and restarted to stop the afib which is self reinforcing when in that mode. It can cause a stroke and there is only 20% chance of success at 78.

I hope you manage the spray ok. I get a gag reaction having a dental impression and would prefer to be knocked out. My mother in law had the spray some years ago before she met her maker and said it was a doddle having the endoscopy. She was a strong lady.
ATB
Derek
 
Last edited:

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
Had the Endoscopy today and opted for the throat spray and it was all done with no problems. ( @lindisfel )
Diagnosis is I have moderate Erythematosus indicating I have Duodenitis. Biopsies taken to test for H Pylori.
PPI Therapy was mentioned and I said I have previously tried Omeprazole about 6 months ago and it had no effect.

Got home to find appointment letter for me to have the long awaited Fibroscan.
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
Hi William, I'm please your endoscopy went well. I guess the findings are somewhat disturbing and could explain your ferritin and liver enzymes?
PPI have a mixed reputation but I guess you are on the lowest carb diet you can manage at present
Paleo diets are said to be a non drug answer. Hope you find a good way through this! best wishes.
Derek
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13lizanne

Liam1955

Master
Messages
10,964
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Anti-Gay People, Self Centre People, Two Faced People and Bad Language.
@lindisfel
Hi Derek,
Saw GP today and has prescribed Ranitidine 150mg twice a day. He says this drug will reduce the amount of acid in my stomach.

Having the long awaited Fibroscan next Tuesday 26th at the Hospital. Just hoping it has decreased from 10.5 in January 2016 = 'Fingers Crossed'.
William:).