Pesky dawn phenomenon

[Weird Science]

Another update to report on a further development. I ran across the following table on insulin sensitivity that ranks various supplements/nutrients based on the evidence to back them up: http://examine.com/topics/Insulin Sensitivity/

One of the supplements mentioned that I had never tried, rated 'B" or "multiple studies where at least two are double-blind and placebo controlled" was L-carnitine. Apart from CLA which I also hadn't tried, it was next on the list to try. So, went to my local health food store and found an Acetyl L-Carnitine (500mg) supplement.

The day I took my first dose, my fasting BG was 7.2 again (the reason I went looking for info), despite taking the Olive Leaf Extract for several weeks and having readings mostly in the 6's. The next day it was 6.7. The following day was 5.6 and has stayed in the mid 5's since. It's early days and I'm trying not to get too excited by it, but it's had the most dramatic effect of any supplement I've taken so far. Long may it continue to work!

Can I ask at what time do you take this..?
A lot of articles I have read say it messes with your sleep and not to take after 3pm, have in morning only,any truth in this..?
Yet others praise it as a natural amino acid that is not full of **** that raises your heartbeat or blood pressure.


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[Indy51]

Can I ask at what time do you take this..?
A lot of articles I have read say it messes with your sleep and not to take after 3pm, have in morning only,any truth in this..?
Yet others praise it as a natural amino acid that is not full of **** that raises your heartbeat or blood pressure.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

I take it in the morning, but it doesn't have the stimulating effect on me that it apparently has on some people. If anything, I find it calming. I did discover that the recommendation on the bottle to take it with food is essential - I got stomach pain the one time I took it without food (but I'm prone to gastritis anyway). I'm also only taking 1 capsule per day; the max recommended on the bottle is 2 capsules.

 

[gfmoore]

I noticed nicotine and caffeine are on the list. So sitting at a cafe table with an espresso and a fag is next on your to try list

 

[Indy51]

I noticed nicotine and caffeine are on the list. So sitting at a cafe table with an espresso and a fag is next on your to try list

Some people swear by caffeine and nicotine gum for all sorts of things, but I've never been a huge fan of coffee and as an ex-smoker, I'm hesitant to use any form of nicotine again, so nope, not on my list of things to try next!!!

 

[gfmoore]

Good to know

I think? one of the things nicotine does is to raise the metabolism as the body want to get rid of it (and all the other poisons in cigarettes). This is what I figured anyway as I started gaining weight when I gave up 25 years ago. I guess that's why (some) models etc smoke, to stay thin. hence uses up glucose.

I have ordered some of the L-carnitin and the co-enzyme Q10 that some have mentioned. I'm not usually a fan of supplements as I wonder sometimes if it's just a snake oil money making thing. I do take B1 and VitD/Calcium, but not really sure if they are doing me any good.

However, any experiment is worth a few quid to try.

Do you try one supplement at a time and see what happens or do you take a few? What are your best suggestions so far?

Respect, as the kids say

lol.

 

[Indy51]

Good to know

I think? one of the things nicotine does is to raise the metabolism as the body want to get rid of it (and all the other poisons in cigarettes). This is what I figured anyway as I started gaining weight when I gave up 25 years ago. I guess that's why (some) models etc smoke, to stay thin. hence uses up glucose.

I have ordered some of the L-carnitin and the co-enzyme Q10 that some have mentioned. I'm not usually a fan of supplements as I wonder sometimes if it's just a snake oil money making thing. I do take B1 and VitD/Calcium, but not really sure if they are doing me any good.

However, any experiment is worth a few quid to try.

Do you try one supplement at a time and see what happens or do you take a few? What are your best suggestions so far?

Respect, as the kids say

lol.

Always best to only change one thing at a time, though it's not always easy to control - if you change more than one thing, it makes it more difficult to assess changes.

Magnesium is something that almost all the alternative health people say is lacking in most modern food because of soil depletion and it seems to have a fairly strong association with Type 2/insulin resistance. I've been supplementing almost since diagnosis. Vitamin D also helped me a lot - I was very surprised to find out I was deficient - not something I would have expected living in Australia - but turns out my sister and niece also have issues, so may be a genetic factor in the synthesis from sunlight.

 

[figgywiggy]

Hello everyone. I am newly diagnosed type 2. I was having morning rises in my blood sugar and have been on a 50-60 g low carb diet for a month. My tests have dropped dramatically and I may be in ketosis (am buying stix to find out). Saturday my pre bed test was 6.5 and rising test 6.8 which is the lowest rising test I have done. Sunday pre bed was 7 and rising was 6.5 which is the first time I did not get the dump. Does anyone know why it has stopped I have had the morning dump sometimes rising by as much as 2.0 since diagnosed. I am not complaining but finding it all difficult to understand and get to grips with.


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[agnostic]

View attachment 5232

This is my DP for last 8 days - all sorts of experiments - note the steep fall off today and I had four sausages and cheese for lunch and a few strawberries, cream and a few nuts. Compare to slow fall off yesterday - it's just crazy crazy stuff.

Note the hyper, hypo, yellow zone and blue zone are just my personal targets.

Just checking. Are sausages "safe" ? Are they not considered "trans-fats" ?

 

[Brunneria]

Just checking. Are sausages "safe" ? Are they not considered "trans-fats" ?

I think it depends on the sausage.
If it's one of the Harrowgate 97% meat ones, there isn't much room left for trans fats.
On the other hand, if it's one of the pink paste sausages served in the average greasy spoon... Well, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

 

[Brunneria]

Just checking. Are sausages "safe" ? Are they not considered "trans-fats" ?

You might find it more effective to pick one experiment and stick with it for at least a week, or even a month. Much kinder to the body, and lets it un-learn the dawn phenomenon.

If you try a different experiment every day, you won't spot any cumulative effects.

But I agree, it is infuriating when there seems to be no rhyme or reason!

 

[johnboy412000]

My wife's BS's are all over the place diabetic nurse has told me to test her at different times of the day so they can get a better idea of how much insulin to give her.At the mo she has 26 units each morning.readings are higher at night than in a morning.i think that varies on what shes eaten in the day.But it just shows how readings can fluctuate wildly

 

[Debmcgee]

Hello everyone. I am newly diagnosed type 2. I was having morning rises in my blood sugar and have been on a 50-60 g low carb diet for a month. My tests have dropped dramatically and I may be in ketosis (am buying stix to find out). Saturday my pre bed test was 6.5 and rising test 6.8 which is the lowest rising test I have done. Sunday pre bed was 7 and rising was 6.5 which is the first time I did not get the dump. Does anyone know why it has stopped I have had the morning dump sometimes rising by as much as 2.0 since diagnosed. I am not complaining but finding it all difficult to understand and get to grips with.


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Test your pee at about 8pm at night - this is the best time to show ketosis and the only time I tested positive.

And cut the strips in half to double the quantity!! Best tip I found here!

I'm a bit skeptical about DP. I used to think I had it but when I dropped to 30g carbs, my fasting BG was getting in the fives so I think it was the carbs giving me higher morning readings. Don't know why though.

Lately I've been very naughty and my fasting BG is really high now for me so I strongly believe it's the carbs and not my liver! I think it'll take me a couple of weeks to normalise again which is really saddening and I'm annoyed at myself.

Today I was good though!

X


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Diagnosed prediabetic Easter 2014. Just left to get on with it, no guidance or help from GP. Every day I'm learning something new.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I also thought I had DP with higher morning readings that refused to go down before lunch, then suddenly my fastings came down to always in the 5's, and it was sudden. Previously always 6's. Every other morning following were mid 5's. Apart from a couple of recent blips, I have stayed in the mid 5's ever since. I have 2 possible explanations. It happened a few days after I stopped taking statins at bedtime (or any other time) and I arrived at a 17% body weight loss. Take your pick. I didn't have any other changes. Around the same time I started taking my bedtime reading, which is almost always within plus or minus 0.2 of the morning reading. So, I am more or less flat over night, and the higher I am at bedtime, the higher I am in the morning. I am assuming this has to be my evening meal as my pre-evening meal readings are always low, without exception.

 

[Brunneria]

I also thought I had DP with higher morning readings that refused to go down before lunch, then suddenly my fastings came down to always in the 5's, and it was sudden. Previously always 6's. Every other morning following were mid 5's. Apart from a couple of recent blips, I have stayed in the mid 5's ever since. I have 2 possible explanations. It happened a few days after I stopped taking statins at bedtime (or any other time) and I arrived at a 17% body weight loss. Take your pick. I didn't have any other changes. Around the same time I started taking my bedtime reading, which is almost always within plus or minus 0.2 of the morning reading. So, I am more or less flat over night, and the higher I am at bedtime, the higher I am in the morning. I am assuming this has to be my evening meal as my pre-evening meal readings are always low, without exception.

That's fantastic.

And it will have a lovely knock on effect for your hba1c.

Interestingly, my dad (slim, 80+, with impaired glucose tolerance, currently testing to discover HOW impaired) is experiencing a ver similar DP to mine (fat, 40's with enough insulin resistance to sink a liner). I'm beginning to wonder if my DP is hereditary.

 

[jim1951]

There are so many variables feeding in to DP I have decided to note them but not worry about them. Having said that they are normally below 6 so I guess I should be happy.

jim

 

[johnboy412000]

Please forgive my ignorance but what is DP ?


And how does everyone get those numbers etc at the very bottom of their postings ?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Please forgive my ignorance but what is DP ?


And how does everyone get those numbers etc at the very bottom of their postings ?

Dawn Phenomenon (or Liver Dump)

Go into your profile and click on "signature". Then you can add what you like.

 

[johnboy412000]

I think it depends on the sausage.
If it's one of the Harrowgate 97% meat ones, there isn't much room left for trans fats.
On the other hand, if it's one of the pink paste sausages served in the average greasy spoon... Well, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

Do you Mean Harrogate as in North Yorkshire ?

Pink paste sausages as in the round ones that Macdonalds use in brekkie buns etc ?

 

[johnboy412000]

Dawn Phenomenon (or Liver Dump)

Go into your profile and click on "signature". Then you can add what you like.

Ah right Dawn Phenonemon im still no wiser on that one ?

And i think i can only add something to to bottom when ive seen the diabetic nurse and got all the stats etc like how my insulin is to be treated and the bs readings etc.

 

[Brunneria]

Ah right Dawn Phenonemon im still no wiser on that one ?

And i think i can only add something to to bottom when ive seen the diabetic nurse and got all the stats etc like how my insulin is to be treated and the bs readings etc.

Re DP, Google is your friend. Here's a lot of info out there, explained a lot better than I can.

And I don't think I've ever had pink paste sausages at maccies...