Portion control.

[mo1905]

Hi Mo-I think you've read my post the wrong way round-I know of a few type 2's who were slim all their lives and all of a sudden gained weight without a change in dietary habits or exercise levels prior to being diagnosed which suggests that a metabolic disorder caused the increased weight and not the weight causing the metabolic disorder,i,e Type diabetes

Yeah, think I did Paul. I also agree with what you say.

 

[Totto]

To get back to Portion control, it is as I understand it so far to disregard that metabolism is managed by hormones and that these hormones regulate hunger and satiety but also if our bodies store or use fat.

In short, portion control is to keep energy intake lowish and look at the body as a machine with energy in-energy out as simple maths instead of the incredibly complicated play of hormones and nutrients of different kinds. Good luck with it, I prefer to work together with my hormones, not against them as I will loose the fight anyway, but that´s me.

I found the info on leptin earlier in this thread interesting indeed. If leptin resistance goes along with insulin resistance it is obviously wise to go LCHF if you want to loose weight and keep you bg normal.

 

[zand]

Portion control is an effective tool in weight loss and will help to maintain your weight when you get to your ideal goal..

Having had 24 hours to think about this, it obviously make sense that eating huge meals can make people fat. (though some stay slim no matter how much they eat.)

I have been thinking about the other side of portion control. It is probably good for those who are overweight to cut down on portion sizes, but by the time you get to being in the fat range, it becomes difficult, maybe too late. The more you cut down, the less your body needs, so you eat less, so your body adapts to this new lower level . Your metabolism slows down so you don't use the same amount of calories and then you are stuck ...fat....with a broken metabolism. So you exercise more, and your body gets used to this too. So your weight refuses to go down. Then, when you stop the exercise, perhaps because of injury or illness, you put on weight.

It is easy to look at a fat person and say 'eating too much has made you fat'. It's true. But cutting calories dramatically won't help long term. Short term there will be some weight loss, but not enough. So I would say it as important to exercise portion control , by making sure you eat enough whilst trying to lose weight to keep you metabolism working well.....and this all comes back to looking after your hormones so they can look after you. The easiest way to do this is to is to cut down on carbs and eat fat, protein and veggies, until your appetite is satisfied. Eating the 'big' carbs....bread rice potatoes sugar and flour products fill you short term, but increase your hunger after a couple of hours, then you need to snack, usually with more carbs. Cut down on carbs and you are not so hungry. So your hormones control you portion size

 

[Dillinger]

Dillinger, I sort of get your point but some people are just greedy. As for not being happy, I agree. Maybe that is just a by product. Most people don't wish to become alcoholic or drug addicted but it happens.

I was thinking about this Mo; and the immediate thing is that alcohol and drug issues are addictions; they are closer to illnesses than to moral failings whereas obesity is seen as pretty much purely a failure of will (being lazy, greedy and so on). I think the hormonal cycle you get into eating starchy carbs (insulin up, leptin down) and the descriptions of 'carb addiction' one can read about means that obesity should be seen as the symptom of an illness (metabolic dysfunction) rather than just the cause of the illness.

Kind regards

Dillinger

 

[mo1905]

I was thinking about this Mo; and the immediate thing is that alcohol and drug issues are addictions; they are closer to illnesses than to moral failings whereas obesity is seen as pretty much purely a failure of will (being lazy, greedy and so on). I think the hormonal cycle you get into eating starchy carbs (insulin up, leptin down) and the descriptions of 'carb addiction' one can read about means that obesity should be seen as the symptom of an illness (metabolic dysfunction) rather than just the cause of the illness.

Kind regards

Dillinger

Again, whilst I agree for the most part, many drug addicts and alcoholics would argue that theirs is an illness too. It is quite often treated as such. Is it a by product of depression or a different chemical imbalance. Generally, those who have any kind of "addiction" tend to do other things to excess. Who knows. I still think there are many obese people who are not suffering with diabetes so perhaps your suggestion could be the answer. Don't you think though that some people are just greedy ? Not just food, never have enough money or shoes or whatever ? Not sure.


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[catherinecherub]

This article explains, better than I ever could, about the hormones involved in over eating and some of the reasons why people get into the cycle.

The fatter the body the hungrier the brain.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...02/the-fatter-the-body-the-hungrier-the-brain

 

[zand]

That's a very good article catherinecherub. Thank you.

 

[AnnieC]

Do you mean that saturated fats are fattening? Or that junk food is fattening? Agree with the latter, as junk food usually is very high in carbs with fat thrown in.

Yes junk food is fattening but both fat and carbs contribute to their obesity

 

[noblehead]

That's a very good article catherinecherub. Thank you.

I agree, an excellent article Catherine!!!!

 

[Totto]

I repost this article on leptin that I found very informative, more so that the one posted by Catherine. A bit more in-depth but still not too complicated.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/leptin/#axzz2wECQpapQ

 

[donnellysdogs]

My first hubby when I met him was a size 26" waist. He could not eat a full size plate of food at all. He hD the equivalent of a small portion of children size meals. He could not eat a full plate of food. He also ate just meat, fruit and veg.

His stomach had shrunk to not being anle to eat more. At least thats what the doctors said. He was so fit and healthy, and still is.

So going on from this, do people that get obese from over eating give themselves a bigger stomach that expects bigger portions?

I gained the habit of eating from a side plate from him, and its stood me in good stead. However, at home I always lick my plate clean... Disgusting I know. I do it at my mums too, and she says "i never taught you to do that"- I tell her to take it as a compliment. I was brought up though that I had to eat everything on my plate from the age of 6. Before 6 I would only eat sausages and complan!!

Do peoples stomachs stretch to expect more?


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[hanadr]

That sounds nice; but it is obviously not true - one can look to one's own experience of eating and hunger and conclude that plate size is pretty irrelevant. There might be subtle influences on the satiated but if you are hungry then whether your plate is the size of the table or of a coffee cup won't really matter. What matters is your leptin response telling your brain that you have eaten enough.

Hunger is, I would suggest, a key hormonal response that can barely be overridden by conscious will; if it weren't your line would have died out long ago in competition with those who really acted on being hungry...

Dillinger

p.s. what is a sad statical world?

in Britain, at this time, very few people, who are not "poor" experience true hunger. Most apparent hunger is misunderstood "Appetite". I don't seem to feel true hunger very often at all, only perhaps if I don't eat for a couple of days. I eat ONE main meal a day and that a modest one course. For lunch today, I've had a vegetable tagine with bulgar wheat. My portion was modest, served on a small dinner plate, but I had a glass of water after and feel too full. I am accustomed to small portions and usually get up from the table with room to spare.
Hana

 

[hanadr]

My first hubby when I met him was a size 26" waist. He could not eat a full size plate of food at all. He hD the equivalent of a small portion of children size meals. He could not eat a full plate of food. He also ate just meat, fruit and veg.

His stomach had shrunk to not being anle to eat more. At least thats what the doctors said. He was so fit and healthy, and still is.

So going on from this, do people that get obese from over eating give themselves a bigger stomach that expects bigger portions?

I gained the habit of eating from a side plate from him, and its stood me in good stead. However, at home I always lick my plate clean... Disgusting I know. I do it at my mums too, and she says "i never taught you to do that"- I tell her to take it as a compliment. I was brought up though that I had to eat everything on my plate from the age of 6. Before 6 I would only eat sausages and complan!!

Do peoples stomachs stretch to expect more?


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Definitely!
Hana

 

[julie56]

Since being diagnosed I think much more carefully about what I eat and how much. I think I always did have a pretty healthy diet anyway and found that as I got older that white bread and pasta no longer agreed with me and changed to wholegrain varieties. I don't want to appear smug - I still got diabetes! Now I have to fine tune even more and have gone for smaller portions and rarely have a dessert and I do eat more consciously and enjoy it more, have lost weight and have more energy. I do sometimes have a day when I find control hard or have a meal too scrummy to stop eating when I should - when this happens I up the exercise a bit. All in all I just try and find a way that works for me at the present time and never say never to changing things in the future if I need to.

 

[Etty]

.......Don't you think though that some people are just greedy ?

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Do you think that, in the context of this discussion, "just greedy" is a perjorative way of saying "too hungry"? The experience of these people is one of hunger, but 'greedy" suggests a character or personality defect. It's a value judgement, you don't approve of "greediness". Wouldn't it be better to consign unhelpful words like greed and laziness to the dustbin, and just look look at experience without the judgement?

 

[mo1905]

Do you think that, in the context of this discussion, "just greedy" is a perjorative way of saying "too hungry"? The experience of these people is one of hunger, but 'greedy" suggests a character or personality defect. It's a value judgement, you don't approve of "greediness". Wouldn't it be better to consign unhelpful words like greed and laziness to the dustbin, and just look look at experience without the judgement?

Sure, we can ignore all the words we don't like. Let's put them all in the dustbin ! Does that mean they don't exist ? I am not saying all large people are greedy, I've quoted numerous occasions here i you read my other posts that I find the Leptin thing plausible. I also don't equate greedy with "too hungry". I'm saying for whatever reason, some people always want more. They will eat beyond the "full" feeling. Greed can come in many forms. Never enough money, food, drink etc. You can ignore the word "greed" if it bothers you, what would you like it to be called ?


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[zand]

Do you think that, in the context of this discussion, "just greedy" is a perjorative way of saying "too hungry"? The experience of these people is one of hunger, but 'greedy" suggests a character or personality defect. It's a value judgement, you don't approve of "greediness". Wouldn't it be better to consign unhelpful words like greed and laziness to the dustbin, and just look look at experience without the judgement?

Yes definitely. I remember when I was a young woman, say aged 25ish, I held the view that fat people were greedy. After all I could eat quite a lot of anything I wanted and if I did put on a little weight, I lost it again without trying. Therefore these fat people MUST be eating more than me, and therefore they were greedy. Oh the ignorance and arrogance of youth!

Now thirty years later (and more than twice the weight I was then), I feel ashamed of how I judged others and I hurt when others judge me. There have been many 'knocks' along the way to cause my weight gain, some my fault, some not. I was determined not to keep putting on weight....but here I am. I no longer have a massive appetite, and I have learnt not to finish everything on my plate when I have stopped feeling hungry. The weight though remains. I feel desperately unhappy about it. I hate going to the doctors because of the lectures about losing weight. However today I have made an appointment to see my GP to ask for Metformin.

I have learned the hard way that I was wrong, but I am a much nicer person now.

 

[Indy51]

I know about thyroid problems! I was very ill for a long time with symptoms of hypothyroidism but my TSH was in range so my Dr said she could rule out under function. I took things in my own hands and started on NDT. Amazing. I got my memory back, I got my energy back, my hair, all sorts of things that hadnt worked for more than a decade suddenly was all right again.

Many patients say they feel better on NDT than on Levo and that it is much easier to loose the thyroid weight gain on NDT as well.

Can you please expand? What is NDT?

@zand - have you had your Vitamin D tested? I can get like a broken record on the subject, but my experience of being diagnosed with a quadruple whammy (Type 2, hypothyroidism, hypertension and Vitamin D deficiency) was that the change on starting Vitamin D was almost miraculous - weight started coming off (I'd been dieting for months prior), TSH normalised - hypertension took longer, but now seems to be under control with no medication.

Most people are now eating 50% or more of their diets as processed carbs, particularly wheat - add bad fats to the equation and we have a nightmare result, but I doubt that greed has much to do with it. Almost all of western society is over-fed and under-nourished. The junkier your diet, the more you will eat trying to gain the nutrients your body needs.

 

[zand]

Can you please expand? What is NDT?

@zand - have you had your Vitamin D tested? I can get like a broken record on the subject, but my experience of being diagnosed with a quadruple whammy (Type 2, hypothyroidism, hypertension and Vitamin D deficiency) was that the change on starting Vitamin D was almost miraculous - weight started coming off (I'd been dieting for months prior), TSH normalised - hypertension took longer, but now seems to be under control with no medication.

.

No. I havn't had my vitamin D tested. Thanks for the tip. I will ask my GP on Monday. Don't worry about sounding like a broken record......that's better than a broken body any day of the week!

 

[Totto]

Can you please expand? What is NDT?

@zand - have you had your Vitamin D tested? I can get like a broken record on the subject, but my experience of being diagnosed with a quadruple whammy (Type 2, hypothyroidism, hypertension and Vitamin D deficiency) was that the change on starting Vitamin D was almost miraculous - weight started coming off (I'd been dieting for months prior), TSH normalised - hypertension took longer, but now seems to be under control with no medication.

Most people are now eating 50% or more of their diets as processed carbs, particularly wheat - add bad fats to the equation and we have a nightmare result, but I doubt that greed has much to do with it. Almost all of western society is over-fed and under-nourished. The junkier your diet, the more you will eat trying to gain the nutrients your body needs.

NDT=Natural Dessicated Thyroid. Or pig´s extract. This is what was used to treat hypothyroidism until they learnt how to make synthetic T4 like Levo. Many patients prefer NDT over Levo but it can be hard, not to say impossible to get it prescribed and only on namned-patient basis.

It is however legal to import for your own use to the UK. Common brand names are Armor, Erfa and Nature-throid. It is measured in grains. I, for example, take 3,5 grains per day, 2 grains in the morning and 1.5 in the afternoon.

Agree on vitamin D, deficiency is very common in us with autoimmune diseases. And the low-grade inflammation also common in autoimmune diseases is often helped by LCHF, particularly staying off grain.