Why cant I lower blood sugar

[Enclave]

My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin?

I am T2 and wish to save the insulin until all other options have been tried .. its my plan B to use it in a way, as I take a heap of meds for my heart problems. I can honestly say the LCHF way of eating (I don't find it restricting) has turned the clock back about 30 years for me. Never mind my blood sugars that are in the normal range now, my overall health has improved greatly .. even reducing some of my heart meds.
T1 is different as you know, and I would not have a problem with insulin if I had T1

 

[TooManyCrisps]

I agree with @Enclave. When in was diagnosed I decided not to use Metformin but to try to reduce my HBA1C without meds. Which so far is working.

I want to try to keep off meds for as long as I can. I'm not saying I won't ever need them but they are there as a reserve if I deteriorate. However, sticking to a LCHF diet means that, so far, everything is improving. But it's a choice. If someone chooses meds so they don't have to eat a restricted diet, that's fine.

 

[Robbity]

Yes, that's true, but the point I was trying to make was that the way it's sometimes put across leads some, including, it would seem, the OP, to the view that carbs are so inherently bad that they end up trying to zero their sugars, as if glucose in blood stream were cyanide or mercury. There is a difference between carbs consumed and sugar in stream in the sense that you could cut out carbs altogether and live a long and happy life, but if you tried to zero glucose in stream, you'd be dead. That's why there's a difference, and the OP seems to have confused the two concepts.

Can I ask a question? Why do more T2s not use insulin? I know very little about T2, but enough to understand why lchf is an attractive option. When I was dx'd I knew little about T1 apart from general (and, as proved to be the case, wrong) impressions that my eating options would be very restricted. That's not the case. I sometimes low carb, but other times high carb, and I can do that as and when I please because of insulin. Yet, in the T2 community, there seems to be a large emphasis on reversing the condition, adopting what seems to me to be very restrictive diets, and in the course of that demonising carbs, even though massive parts of the world's population (for example, Asia) exist quite happily without noticeable consequences on staples like rice and noodles: carbs can't be that bad. My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin? I chat from time to time with a T2 in my local (we were both using a libre for a while and were comparing notes), and asked him about this. His answer was that he really didn't want to have hypos and was content to radically change his diet to avoid that. Is that the main or only reason, fear of hypos? Or is it also, as some here seem to think, that carbs are inherently evil?

I don't need (or want!) to take insulin when what I already have is just unable to do its job properly any longer, so why should I wanr to anyway when there's a quite natural way of eating that can go a long way to fixing my problem. My body can no longer handle carbs properly, and shoving unnecessary extra insulin into myself isn't going to solve that, but eating an LCHF diet has enabled my body to cope much better, and has restored my life to me, changing me from a virtually non functioning brain dead zombie into some semblance of a happy and much healthier human being again. In this respect, for me, too many carbs are evil and have been a potential life destroyer....

A sensible, healthy, low carb diet is in no way restrictive, and I'm now back to eating a better diet than the high carb one I was expected to eat for far too long.

And I believe that many T2s can go a long way to controlling (rather than perhaps reversing!) our diabetes by a healthy LCHF diet and lifestyle, so IMO it's eminently sensible to choose this route since we often have more choice in such matters than T1s do? But there are a number of T1s on the forum who also eat a low carb diet. As I understand it: less carbs = less need for insulin adjustments = less room for errors = more stable glucose levels/fewer hypos...

Robbity

And PS: On diagnosis my long time GP actually likened my high glucose levels to having corrosive acid floating around in my veins!

 

[psignathus]

Yes, that's true, but the point I was trying to make was that the way it's sometimes put across leads some, including, it would seem, the OP, to the view that carbs are so inherently bad that they end up trying to zero their sugars, as if glucose in blood stream were cyanide or mercury. There is a difference between carbs consumed and sugar in stream in the sense that you could cut out carbs altogether and live a long and happy life, but if you tried to zero glucose in stream, you'd be dead. That's why there's a difference, and the OP seems to have confused the two concepts.

Can I ask a question? Why do more T2s not use insulin? I know very little about T2, but enough to understand why lchf is an attractive option. When I was dx'd I knew little about T1 apart from general (and, as proved to be the case, wrong) impressions that my eating options would be very restricted. That's not the case. I sometimes low carb, but other times high carb, and I can do that as and when I please because of insulin. Yet, in the T2 community, there seems to be a large emphasis on reversing the condition, adopting what seems to me to be very restrictive diets, and in the course of that demonising carbs, even though massive parts of the world's population (for example, Asia) exist quite happily without noticeable consequences on staples like rice and noodles: carbs can't be that bad. My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin? I chat from time to time with a T2 in my local (we were both using a libre for a while and were comparing notes), and asked him about this. His answer was that he really didn't want to have hypos and was content to radically change his diet to avoid that. Is that the main or only reason, fear of hypos? Or is it also, as some here seem to think, that carbs are inherently evil?

It was the 'threat' of insulin that prompted me to go keto 2 years back. I refused insulin because I found a less invasive option (LCHF) and got to loose lots of weight. Carbs are not bad for all but they are for some and most type 2's fall into this category. I think you are over thinking it. Why would you want to inject yourself daily if you do not have to? given the option are you saying you would eat carbs and inject rather than reduce carbs and not have to inject?

 

[sheepie123]

It was the 'threat' of insulin that prompted me to go keto 2 years back. I refused insulin because I found a less invasive option (LCHF) and got to loose lots of weight. Carbs are not bad for all but they are for some and most type 2's fall into this category. I think you are over thinking it. Why would you want to inject yourself daily if you do not have to? given the option are you saying you would eat carbs and inject rather than reduce carbs and not have to inject?

Your talking to the guy who has been on 2 Injections every 3 days for the last 6 months for other issues . I am not bothered by injections anymore heck an Insulin pen isnt anywhere near as big as some of the needles I have to put into me some of them really sting.

 

[Captynmorgan]

Hi Folks,

Does it stand to reason that if I did not eat for long enough my blood sugar level would reach zero? For some reason I have been on around 100 cals per day and my fasting is around 5.6 and about 6.4 - 2 hours post meals. I have even gone as far as eating only two meals per day now and it never seems to push below 5.6. One day I decided to starve myself and again it still did not go much below 5.5 - 5.6. I thought that with a high blood sugar the pancreas makes insulin. Well surely 24 hours of fasting would be enough to put bloods to zero if the pancreas is still working.

When you go for long periods of time without food, your liver secrets glucose

 

[Em1981]

As a T1, I'm wary about venturing into a T2 question, but I'm an inquisitive little fecker so will do so anyway!

As other posters have correctly pointed out, you would be dead long before your blood sugar reached zero.

The easy question to ask is why would you want to have a zero blood sugar, but the fact you've even asked a question about zeroing suggests to me the answer is that you've seen a huge number of posts here more or less demonising carbs, their effect on readings, and concluded that it's logical to zero it.

I take my hat off to you guys/gals who do keto, lchf, fasting: each to their own and all that. Those options do seem to work very well for T2s. Indeed, as a T1, I occasionally end up as an accidental low carber: who could complain about some griilled lamb chops and asparagus? Still have my omelette on toast, though!

But the thing which concerns me a bit is that when a new poster signs up, whether they're T1, T2, or some of the other wonderful variations on those themes, the overwhelming response is often a screed of posts that, "ok, mate, just do lchf, and you'll be fine."

That might be perfectly correct for T2s, but two problems:

First, the OP seems to have interpreted that as meaning carbs are so bad, so evil, that he/she is starving to try to zero. Serious misunderstanding of basic body chemistry going on there which could result in death. Should the lchf crew qualify their advice to make it clear that there's a difference between what carbs you eat, and what glucose is in your stream? The demonising of carbs which any reader of this site has seen blurs the difference.

Second, as I've said above, I'm an occasional low carber, but I recall when I was first dx'd and told I'll need several injections each day for the rest of my life, that was a bit of a head-f*ck on it's own, and it would have put me over the edge if I was then told that, by the way, I can never eat any carbs again. Yet, I've seen a fair few posts here immediately recommending an lchf diet to newly dx'd T1s, from T2s! Lchf is a choice we can all make further down the line, but I'm not sure it's proper to suggest it to a newly dx'd T1 when they've got enough to get their head round already.

What is lchf?

 

[Bluetit1802]

What is lchf?

Low carb high fat

 

[NatJS]

Can I ask a question? Why do more T2s not use insulin?

Someone else has pointed out that type 2 diabetics are usually insulin resistant. When I was diagnosed, I did ask my GP why I shouldn't just go straight onto insulin. He said that at diagnosis a type 2 might typically have as much as 10x more insulin in their blood than someone without diabetes due to the pancreas working overtime to get the blood sugar back down. So we've usually already got plenty of insulin to work with! Adding more insulin apparently would work to control blood sugar (as some oral medications do cause the pancreas to secrete more insulin) but if you read about the long term health risks associated with chronic high insulin levels (cancer in particular) you'd probably choose not to go down that route if you didn't have to!

 

[kokhongw]

Someone else has pointed out that type 2 diabetics are usually insulin resistant. When I was diagnosed, I did ask my GP why I shouldn't just go straight onto insulin. He said that at diagnosis a type 2 might typically have as much as 10x more insulin in their blood than someone without diabetes due to the pancreas working overtime to get the blood sugar back down. So we've usually already got plenty of insulin to work with! Adding more insulin apparently would work to control blood sugar (as some oral medications do cause the pancreas to secrete more insulin) but if you read about the long term health risks associated with chronic high insulin levels (cancer in particular) you'd probably choose not to go down that route if you didn't have to!

You have met an unusually enlightened GP who recognized the association and consequence of elevated circulating insulin and being insulin resistant. Prevailing treatment protocols has been chasing medication based glucose lowering, not insulin lowering...that may well explain the dismal success T2D standard of care over the last few decades. Insulin levels remains high till eventual beta cells exhaustion...

But we have been extremely fortunate that there is growing awareness to correct this misguidance...especially for obesity related Type 2 diabetes.

Hyperinsulinemia and Insulin Resistance: Scope of the Problem
http://insulinresistance.org/index.php/jir/article/view/18/25

"Virtually, no body system is unaffected by chronic hyperinsulinemia, IR and the accompanying hyperglycaemia. Therefore, the time has come for a new paradigm, recognising the primacy of insulin dysregulation as a unifying factor of chronic disease. As the various diseases associated with the MetSy may be relatively late indicators of IR that manifest only after the body’s compensatory mechanisms have begun to fail, then early identification may be one of the most powerful and profound tools for modern medicine in stemming the destructive tide of these illnesses."