The sadness of being ignorant of their own diabetes

[ickihun]

This is quite difficult as I know as a Type 1 for three decades what the consequences of not managing ones diabetes can lead to (whether in ignorance or choice!).

I believe all diabetics regardless of type in this situation can really only do one thing and that is to lead by example. Do the things suggested to keep in line with sugar levels so the person can see how well managed our diabetes is. So they can see us managing our day to day life, work and social life positively

Over a period of time they will (hopefully!) want to know how we manage our illness and when they do we can then sit down with them and explain through our own experience how we manage and what we need to do to stay as well as we can be.

I used to be alcohol dependent and even after suffering a drink induced DKA and coma in the summer of 2003 it still took another 6 months until I finally managed to stop drinking. My point being that the person needs to want to stop abusing themselves before anyone can really help (whether it be diabetes, alcohol, smoking or gambling) and until they do all we can really do is lead by example.

We can only be expert in our own illness. Others need to take that responsibility themselves and when they do then we can reach out and help.

Kevin

Kevin.
I absolutely agree the 'patient' must want to do something about their condition. Afterall it's their fight.!
Leading by example works.
I guess we all see ourselves as what we're doing as right. Otherwise why would we pursue this way of management?

 

[ickihun]

I don't want to go on... but I was there where your friend is.
I'm personally finding lchf works for me but not perfect.
But I'm not perfect.
Neither is your family friend. He may not possess the confidence to admit he needs help.
Get him, then his wife on this forum.
He's not alone.
Warn him that it's full of personal experiences and ultimately he has to 'choose' what he does with the info.
We hope to see him in the future.

Note: ex addicts can be the worst critics.
I want to be at that stage. An ex
(without coming across as a critic).

 

[Oldvatr]

Apparantly I only dreamed to read this:

"ultimately you have to step back as a worried bystander in the same way if he was an alcoholic or drug user"

(BTW, I am sure you wanted to write " who did not connect non LCHF with drug or alcohol addiction at all. ")




and you obviously have an issue about not eating LCHF and using insulin to get good numbers.



for sure, and because of preaching this mantra I wrote things like "This is not the way of LCHF (and I believe LCHF works for you!) but it is neither the highway to hell." or " But IMHO the best way to control diabetes is having good numbers. Not important whether with LCHF or with count and inject insulin correctly " Really? To be honest, some other writings here sound much more like preaching "I have the one and only way!"



Please accept that banish all these things like potatoes, bread, noodles ... is not easy or painless for all.



You are welcome to refute my writings in #33 http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...-their-own-diabetes.89852/page-2#post-1027346 instead of creating a straw man or arguing ad hominem.

And once again: I am happy for everone who can manage his diabetes by your way. LCHF is a way, and I love to see any share of experience to manage diabetes! But I do not like to read that everyone who do not LCHF is dumb or uninformed, abusing himself or has no interest in his health.

I think that the frustration being expressed in this thread is not that LCHF is the only way to go or that anyone not doing LCHF is a Numpty, Here in the UK there is a big debate regarding Sugar Tax and how to reduce sugar in our food and drink. We daily have TV adverts graphically showing how many sugar lumps are in a can of fizzy pop. It is taught in schools Our packaged food has to have carb content declared by law. Why? Because high carbing is bad for us in so many ways.

There are many diets discussed in the DCUK forum that help to reduce our carb intake, and most of the posters in this thread have seen benefit from this type of diet,even to the point of being able to reduce or give up medication entirely. We lead by example, and do not think what we are offering is snake oil. As a scientist myself, I have done more than just academic research, I have experimented on my own body with undeniable results for me. I use LCHF because it makes sense with the known data on metabolic processes, but I could have gone with any other LC diet. The main key is LC. That is why I suggest trying to get people to visit this Forum so they can take control back of their lives. But it is not mandatory. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink"

 

[Enclave]

That is why I suggest trying to get people to visit this Forum so they can take control back of their lives. But it is not mandatory. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink"

But how do you get friends to stop putting their faith in the Drs that tell them to eat more carbs ...I was a following to the letter the advice given to me .. including not testing my BS .. I became so unwell I had nothing to loose .. and the wife has always been LCHF eating without realising it so joined her in how I ate ... but this was at the disapproval of my db nurse who has put that my diabetes is uncontrolled and I am refusing to confirm to the advice she gave me ... on the other hand my heart failure nurse is very happy with my dramatic health improvements !!!
It takes a lot go against the medical world and try a way of eating that we have been brainwashed by the gov to believe is not healthy for us.

 

[Oldvatr]

But how do you get friends to stop putting their faith in the Drs that tell them to eat more carbs ...I was a following to the letter the advice given to me .. including not testing my BS .. I became so unwell I had nothing to loose .. and the wife has always been LCHF eating without realising it so joined her in how I ate ... but this was at the disapproval of my db nurse who has put that my diabetes is uncontrolled and I am refusing to confirm to the advice she gave me ... on the other hand my heart failure nurse is very happy with my dramatic health improvements !!!
It takes a lot go against the medical world and try a way of eating that we have been brainwashed by the gov to believe is not healthy for us.

Good point, and I suspect this may be behind the OP. We have a dichotomy at present where the latest research completely turns our previous knowledge and training on its head. i believe that others such as Galileo, Copernicus, et al had similar problems with authority. Not forgetting that if God meant man to fly then he/she would have fitted us with wings ! (and a pouch for the sickbag)

 

[zand]

I felt there was some 'showing off' by the friend - that he was so 'good' to avoid alcohol. I don't think any amount of telling him to change his ways would work. I agree with the poster who suggested a change of doctor's surgery, although that may not help either.

I have held back from saying this because it sounds very harsh, but I have seen it in 'real life' as well as 'forum life', some people 'enjoy' ill health (and the sympathy that others give them) too much to want to change until something really nasty happens to them. I suggest you be around for your friend when the **** really hits the fan. That's when he may listen, when he is too scared not to do so. Fear can be a good motivator.

 

[Oldvatr]

I felt there was some 'showing off' by the friend - that he was so 'good' to avoid alcohol. I don't think any amount of telling him to change his ways would work. I agree with the poster who suggested a change of doctor's surgery, although that may not help either.

I have held back from saying this because it sounds very harsh, but I have seen it in 'real life' as well as 'forum life', some people 'enjoy' ill health (and the sympathy that others give them) too much to want to change until something really nasty happens to them. I suggest you be around for your friend when the **** really hits the fan. That's when he may listen, when he is too scared not to do so. Fear can be a good motivator.

Had to have 2 strokes myself to make me give up smoking !!!!!!

 

[Chook]

Nice explanation. Very concise but says it all.

 

[Chook]

Sorry - I was talking about Ovid explanation by Zand

 

[KittyKatty]

I know LCHF is the solution most here prefer. But IMHO the best way to control diabetes is having good numbers. Not important whether with LCHF or with count and inject insulin correctly. So feel sorry or be shocked when someone cannot get control of his bg numbers, but not because they do not follows the holy grail of LCHF. And do not equalize non LCHF with alcoholics or drug addicts. Thanks.

Forget the LCHF. I was addressing the OP about their concern over a friend who eats whole loaves of bread and full sugar drinks. By any standards, that is a bad diet choice for a Type 2. Anyone who is imbibing something harmful to themselves will have worried bystanders but in the end, you can't force a Type 2 to NOT drink full-sugar coke, any more than you can force an alcoholic to not have another drink. Is there anything in particular about avoiding full sugar fizzies that you equate as a ringing endorsement of LCHF? I'm not sure I understand your sensitivity on this matter

 

[Tom Green]

Wouldn't a DN take a BG check before putting him on insulin? Mine did and foes ever visit. My guess is he is aware but maybe thinks he is indistructable.

 

[Chook]

Wouldn't a DN take a BG check before putting him on insulin? Mine did and foes ever visit. My guess is he is aware but maybe thinks he is indistructable.

Mine didn't and never has. She accepted my own test results which were accurate and an annual HbA1C.

I do, however, know a couple of people who falsify their readings. One reduces them because he doesn't want to go on insulin but another neighbour increases them. I think she has a touch of Munchausen syndrome.

 

[Molly56]

Mine didn't and never has. She accepted my own test results which were accurate and an annual HbA1C.

I do, however, know a couple of people who falsify their readings. One reduces them because he doesn't want to go on insulin but another neighbour increases them. I think she has a touch of Munchausen syndrome.

I would agree with @Chook in that the diabetic nurse for my partner relies on what is written in his book and the HbA1c reading.....he also falsifies his readings in his book and sometimes just completely makes them up when he doesn't even test....or tests and still just makes them up....personally I don't understand the mentality behind why he does it.....have not questioned him as to why as am just leaving him to get on with it now....

 

[Tarabas]

There are several possible explanations. Shame. Or the feeling using a test stripe is more about having a test you can pass or fail instead of monitoring/metering.

 

[Oldvatr]

I would agree with @Chook in that the diabetic nurse for my partner relies on what is written in his book and the HbA1c reading.....he also falsifies his readings in his book and sometimes just completely makes them up when he doesn't even test....or tests and still just makes them up....personally I don't understand the mentality behind why he does it.....have not questioned him as to why as am just leaving him to get on with it now....

What is being described here is a major reason why there is resistance to T2D self monitoring. NOT because of the deception giving wrong results, but because the act of testing becomes overimportant in itself, and causes some to become quite anal over the absolute numbers, instead of correctly using the results as a guide. It becomes a race,and everytime a reading come in above the target set by the GP or DCN or DCUK it becomes a 'disaster' rhat needs to be suppressed from view by cooking the books.
BTW I think this is taking the thread away from the OP so I will say no more. I hope that all diabetics get the support they need to help them reduce (possibly eliminate) the consequences of travelling down De Nile. PS I too get the temptation to cook the books, but so far I have managed to resist it.

 

[jaywak]

I was at my dentist recently were I was asked do you drink much sugary drinks? I replied that as a type 1 diabetic it would not be a good idea to which the dentist replied that I would be amazed how many diabetic patients of hers said yes to that question,I can only assume there must be a lot of ignorant people out there!

 

[Oldvatr]

I was at my dentist recently were I was asked do you drink much sugary drinks? I replied that as a type 1 diabetic it would not be a good idea to which the dentist replied that I would be amazed how many diabetic patients of hers said yes to that question,I can only assume there must be a lot of ignorant people out there!

Ignorant? not necessarily. When a diabetic is running high sugars, then there are times whena fizzy sugaray drink is 'needed' to quench the thirst. It is often the way of life that they followed before diagnosis, and old habits die hard.

It is interesting that this morning the University of Bristol in the UK oublished a report on how there is 'overwhelming evidence' that diet drinks are more effective than water in helping weight loss. i have not studied the report, but there are serious questions being voiced about the validity of the report. Apparently, according to a reporter who was interviewed on TV, the funding is very suspect. The report refused to state who had funded the research, but it seems that it was a major american soft drinks manufacturer. Also, the research was a meta analysis of many trials, where only one trial reported a conclusion that 'supported' the conclusion, but most were negative. So the conclusion in the Bristol study appears to be 'fixed'.

Am I surprised? However, many here will read this conclusion and use it to justify their actions because it comes from an 'independant' source, so must be true. It is not so much ignorance but brainwashing that causes this behaviour. We see daily now how hidden sugars are causing obesity and diabetes, and pictures of sugar lumps coming out of soda pop cans etc, so we cannot blame ignorance. We have been seduced for so long now that habits and addictions take over, and this is difficult to change. Coupled with brand marketing and seductive advertising, we are fighting an uphill battle.

 

[Enclave]

Ignorant? not necessarily. When a diabetic is running high sugars, then there are times whena fizzy sugaray drink is 'needed' to quench the thirst. It is often the way of life that they followed before diagnosis, and old habits die hard.

It is interesting that this morning the University of Bristol in the UK oublished a report on how there is 'overwhelming evidence' that diet drinks are more effective than water in helping weight loss. i have not studied the report, but there are serious questions being voiced about the validity of the report. Apparently, according to a reporter who was interviewed on TV, the funding is very suspect. The report refused to state who had funded the research, but it seems that it was a major american soft drinks manufacturer. Also, the research was a meta analysis of many trials, where only one trial reported a conclusion that 'supported' the conclusion, but most were negative. So the conclusion in the Bristol study appears to be 'fixed'.

Am I surprised? However, many here will read this conclusion and use it to justify their actions because it comes from an 'independant' source, so must be true. It is not so much ignorance but brainwashing that causes this behaviour. We see daily now how hidden sugars are causing obesity and diabetes, and pictures of sugar lumps coming out of soda pop cans etc, so we cannot blame ignorance. We have been seduced for so long now that habits and addictions take over, and this is difficult to change. Coupled with brand marketing and seductive advertising, we are fighting an uphill battle.

I am T2 and was told on my first visit to the DBN to eat more carbs and drink fizzy drinks if I started to feel unwell, also not to test .. As I said before it hard to go against what your medical professionals are telling you to do. I am now marked as uncooperative by my DBN as I do test and don't follow her advice on diet .... on the other hand my heart failure nurse is very happy with my new diet and my heart is sounding better than it has for years ... tic-tok

Edit to add ... its not the general public with T2 that are doing it 'wrong' as most of them are following medical advice, eat more carbs etc .. we need to change the advice DSNs and Drs are giving out .

 

[Oldvatr]

I am T2 and was told on my first visit to the DBN to eat more carbs and drink fizzy drinks if I started to feel unwell, also not to test .. As I said before it hard to go against what your medical professionals are telling you to do. I am now marked as uncooperative by my DBN as I do test and don't follow her advice on diet .... on the other hand my heart failure nurse is very happy with my new diet and my heart is sounding better than it has for years ... tic-tok

Edit to add ... its not the general public with T2 that are doing it 'wrong' as most of them are following medical advice, eat more carbs etc .. we need to change the advice DSNs and Drs are giving out .

I think the advice to have carbs or a fizzy drink if feeling unwell is possibly connected with recovery from hypo or low bgl. if this advice was some time ago, then the advice not to test is probably following the NICE guidelines of the time. I detect that things have changed recently, and for T2D on any medication that can lead to hypo, then testing is now supported. (I can't spell hypoglycaemic !) What has not been taken on board by the medical pro's (i.e. NICE) is the changes that can be acheived by diet alone.

As a newbie T2 you should have been supported for self test during the startup period, but it would only last a short while (poss 6 months), but GP practices are under stress to reduce costs.

I agree that we need to educate the educators, and I see my GP tomorrow for his next 'lesson'.

 

[Oldvatr]

.

I agree that we need to educate the educators, and I see my GP tomorrow for his next 'lesson'.

The 'lesson' went very well indeed I am going to post the outcome in the Success subthread since it has nothing to with the OP.