Why Cutting Carbs From Your Diet Is A Bad Move

[Pinkorchid]

What I do think is that we do not emphasis enough to newbies who come here that LCHF is very good but is not suitable for everyone. Some have other medical conditions which it may not suit so it would be sensible to consult their HCP's first before making any changes to their diet

 

[SunnyExpat]

Indeed, though my comment was actually intended as tongue in cheek But one thing I was taught long ago is to "consider the source" - one of the most important things I ever learned, which to me when I remember to do so means avoiding wasting my time and getting het up by rejecting the liable to be misinformed ones. Though I will accept that sometimes being aware of misinformation can provide a suitable weapon to refute it.

However if people are newly diagnosed, confused and floundering, seeing such subject headings on a post may be all they need to dissuade them from attempting a very suitable diet that does work for many of us - without then necessarily reading Kevin's post any further or carefully enough to see his caveat. In that situation it's very easy to take such articles at face value, particularly if you know nothing about the subject in question.

Robbity

I would hope that anyone bothering to visit the website for information, would go beyond reading one title, of one post, and basing their lifetime choice on a single line, if they were unfortunate enough to only see this particular one, and for some reason every other post was hidden.
I would credit any one seeking information with more intellect than that.

 

[Robbity]

I
I would credit any one seeking information with more intellect than that.

You obviously don't live in my corner of the universe then...

Robbity

 

[SunnyExpat]

You obviously don't live in my corner of the universe then...

Robbity

Obviously not.

 

[plantagenet]

I would hope that anyone bothering to visit the website for information, would go beyond reading one title, of one post, and basing their lifetime choice on a single line, if they were unfortunate enough to only see this particular one, and for some reason every other post was hidden.
I would credit any one seeking information with more intellect than that.

I would have thought that most people visiting the website for the first time is unlikely to make a beeline for what, at that point, is an obscure post, but would go to the newbie parts of the forum like Newly Diagnosed if they are serious about getting started. If that is the case it rather negates the whole argument on this thread, which looks like it is starting to degenerate. @himtoo Would suggest a mod considers closing it down at this point.

 

[himtoo]

I have been pondering what to say towards this topic and as mods we try to keep topics alive as much as possible.

For every person that posts on a topic there are another 3 or 4 that are not brave or confident enough to consider posting.
They get frightened by some of the very strong and aggressive posting by some members of the forum.
we call them lurkers and they are a huge part of this community , many of these people are newly diagnosed and indeed do read many topics on many subjects.
They certainly do not confine their searching to greetings and introductions.
just to give an idea on the potential numbers looking at topics but not replying
currently 205,949 members ( and easily double that in people that have not yet joined but just view as guests )
if just 1/40th of 1% of people on the forum look at this topic that is approx 200 people that will view and never ever post.

this forum is massive and touches many many lives and is growing bigger all the time.

 

[plantagenet]

I have been pondering what to say towards this topic and as mods we try to keep topics alive as much as possible.

For every person that posts on a topic there are another 3 or 4 that are not brave or confident enough to consider posting.
They get frightened by some of the very strong and aggressive posting by some members of the forum.
we call them lurkers and they are a huge part of this community , many of these people are newly diagnosed and indeed do read many topics on many subjects.
They certainly do not confine their searching to greetings and introductions.
just to give an idea on the potential numbers looking at topics but not replying
currently 205,949 members ( and easily double that in people that have not yet joined but just view as guests )
if just 1/40th of 1% of people on the forum look at this topic that is approx 200 people that will view and never ever post.

this forum is massive and touches many many lives and is growing bigger all the time.

I am absolutely in agreement with what you are saying @himtoo. My point was that when a thread starts to unravel and become heated it starts to move off topic, which rather suggests that it might have run its course and its time to move on.

 

[bobrobert]

Exactly so why would we take any notice of it. For those not diabetic or overweight why would they want to cut their carbs

To prevent the onset of Diabetes? I had a warning which I ignored mostly because very little information was given by a possibly over worked doctor with little time to explain things.

 

[bobrobert]

I would hope that anyone bothering to visit the website for information, would go beyond reading one title, of one post, and basing their lifetime choice on a single line, if they were unfortunate enough to only see this particular one, and for some reason every other post was hidden.
I would credit any one seeking information with more intellect than that.

This is a large forum with lots of information. Reading every post would be time consuming so a header that catches your eye is important.

 

[Brunneria]

What I do think is that we do not emphasis enough to newbies who come here that LCHF is very good but is not suitable for everyone. Some have other medical conditions which it may not suit so it would be sensible to consult their HCP's first before making any changes to their diet

You clearly don't read the same threads as me then.

Every single T2 newbie thread that I read has Daisy1's contribution (no pushing LCHF there), and several people promoting self testing, to tailor make a diet that works for them. There are usually comments from others who offer alternate views.

In addition, the DCUK website, and a pinned intro thread, strongly promote the Low Carb programme, which is very careful to introduce carb reduction systematically and sensibly over 10 weeks, of structured education. Again, carb control and real food are emphasised, not gobs of HF.

However, if you feel so strongly, why not post systematically on the newbie threads yourself? People like @bluetit , myself, @liam1955 and many others have been doing so for years, trying to offer newbies a non-pressured welcome where they can find their feet and find what works for them.

 

[JenniferG]

Jason Fung says insulin resistance drives obesity.. eating carbs, especially sucrose/fructose, will increase insulin resistance and make you hungry all the time. And want to snack on sugary/starchy stuff all day.. and get fat. I read the linked article above.. and half of what was said doesn't make sense. Lol the trainer says you just lose water weight on low carb diet.. okay what happens AFTER you burn that glycogen store? You burn fat.. he seemed to stop at that point. So stupid. i.e. AS IF a LCHF diet STOPS the moment you burn you glycogen store within 2-4 days. LCHF diet is a LIFETIME change.. permanent diet -- LOL not for 2 days until we burn up our glycogen store.

Same old calorie in/ calories out model.. restricted calories.. never works.. it's hormonal as Jason Fung explains -- all about insulin resistance and persistent high insulin levels due to snacking/grazing all day. LCHF intermittent fasting (6 hour feasting window, 18 hour fasting) is working wonders for me.. never hungry, more energy then ever.. losing weight like crazy while stuffing myself in that six hour window. 18 hours of low insulin levels .. you are no longer hungry; and also during that 18 hours your digestive system gets a break and body can focus on other important things.

EDIT: you don't have to be diabetic to have high insulin resistance.. it could be that you have an awesome tough pancreas that can keep up with the abuse. My brother is 300 pounds with blood sguar of 85 afer eating.. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have high insulin.. just means his pancreas can currently keep up. Might not be that way forever for him. I have diabetes after all. but I have been morbidly obese all my life.. heavier than him and for longer.

 

[KevinPotts]

Jason Fung says insulin resistance drives obesity.. eating carbs, especially sucrose/fructose, will increase insulin resistance and make you hungry all the time. And want to snack on sugary/starchy stuff all day.. and get fat. I read the linked article above.. and half of what was said doesn't make sense. Lol the trainer says you just lose water weight on low carb diet.. okay what happens AFTER you burn that glycogen store? You burn fat.. he seemed to stop at that point. So stupid. i.e. AS IF a LCHF diet STOPS the moment you burn you glycogen store within 2-4 days. LCHF diet is a LIFETIME change.. permanent diet -- LOL not for 2 days until we burn up our glycogen store.

Same old calorie in/ calories out model.. restricted calories.. never works.. it's hormonal as Jason Fung explains -- all about insulin resistance and persistent high insulin levels due to snacking/grazing all day. LCHF intermittent fasting (6 hour feasting window, 18 hour fasting) is working wonders for me.. never hungry, more energy then ever.. losing weight like crazy while stuffing myself in that six hour window. 18 hours of low insulin levels .. you are no longer hungry; and also during that 18 hours your digestive system gets a break and body can focus on other important things.

EDIT: you don't have to be diabetic to have high insulin resistance.. it could be that you have an awesome tough pancreas that can keep up with the abuse. My brother is 300 pounds with blood sguar of 85 afer eating.. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have high insulin.. just means his pancreas can currently keep up. Might not be that way forever for him. I have diabetes after all. but I have been morbidly obese all my life.. heavier than him and for longer.

Spot on

I replicate your views and experience!


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum

 

[Oldvatr]

One positive to come out of this is that the discussion has highlighted that the apple.news website is a poo source of information for users of this Forum.

Oops Typo correction needed - poo should have read poor, but then again, maybe my fingers know more than I give them credit for.
IMO I was already aware of this website, and have seen others using it to substantiate a point they are making. Sad.

 

[Oldvatr]

Spot on

I replicate your views and experience!


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum

IMHO Jason Fung puts forward an interesting hypothesis or two, and I find them interesting. But I do not follow Guru's willy nilly. I do not worship them either. However, so far what they propose seems to be of significanrt benefit to many on this Forum, and that for me is the proof of the pudding.

 

[Karenchq]

I just read the article and find it complete rubbish. The part about being low energy and cranky with low carb is just the opposite on how I feel on low carb. Thanks to advice on this site I am eating better and feeling better.


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum

 

[SunnyExpat]

IMHO Jason Fung puts forward an interesting hypothesis or two, and I find them interesting. But I do not follow Guru's willy nilly. I do not worship them either. However, so far what they propose seems to be of significanrt benefit to many on this Forum, and that for me is the proof of the pudding.

Many, not all as you quite rightly say.
Like you, I'm not a great followers of Guru's simply for being Guru's.
I do have issues with some, as I find calories in/calories out applied to me, and I lose more weight on a little and often structured diet, rather than a fast and feast.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Personally, I found the article to be very appropriately worded (for the most part). It's obviously aimed at a certain target audience as the discussion is pretty basic for the most part.

The fact of the matter is that most of the people who low carb arent actually reaching ketosis. Therefore, most of their weight loss is in fact caused by a caloric deficit as the writer mentioned.

Furthermore, most people do have significant weight loss in the first few weeks that's simply caused by a depletion of their glycogen reserves and consequently less water retention. The writer mentions this.

The writer appropriately mentions that a low-carb diet is difficult to sustain for many. While there are plenty of success stories on this forum, there are just as many (if not more) failure stories to support that FACT (not opinion).

The general demographic on this site isn't what I'd personally consider to be "Active" or particularly concerned about muscle retention. I would guess that less than 5% of the members on this forum have picked up a dumbbell weighing more than 10 pounds in the past year. That's not to say everyone should be a bodybuilder, but muscle retention is rarely discussed on this forum....it's just a matter of fact.

So let's keep in mind when we read these kinds of blogs/stories/articles (whatever you consider them) that they're generally targeting someone with minimal knowledge and it might be counter-intuitive to introduce concepts like ketosis to someone like that. Let's also keep in mind that diabetics are (fortunately) still a small percentage of the general population. That's not to say that the percentage isn't increasing, but roughly 9 out of 10 people (more/less in some countries) does not have diabetes.

Just my opinion on what was shared. Cheers.


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum

 

[Pinkorchid]

You clearly don't read the same threads as me then.

Every single T2 newbie thread that I read has Daisy1's contribution (no pushing LCHF there), and several people promoting self testing, to tailor make a diet that works for them. There are usually comments from others who offer alternate views.

In addition, the DCUK website, and a pinned intro thread, strongly promote the Low Carb programme, which is very careful to introduce carb reduction systematically and sensibly over 10 weeks, of structured education. Again, carb control and real food are emphasised, not gobs of HF.

However, if you feel so strongly, why not post systematically on the newbie threads yourself? People like @bluetit , myself, @liam1955 and many others have been doing so for years, trying to offer newbies a non-pressured welcome where they can find their feet and find what works for them.

I never said anything about newbies being pressured or promoting LCHF or testing BG that has nothing to do with what I said . I was saying that it is wise to speak to their doctor if they have any other medical problems before they start any new regime which is sensible I would have thought and I do say that to newbies sometimes

 

[Robbity]

I just read the article and find it complete rubbish. The part about being low energy and cranky with low carb is just the opposite on how I feel on low carb. Thanks to advice on this site I am eating better and feeling better.

I also never had any issues, possibly because my low carb lifestyle was the result of a gradual and fairly minor change of diet over a couple of months; however, many people do and will suffer from these issues and others - known as "carb flu" - while their bodies are dealing with carbohydrate "withdrawal symptoms", before they start to see the benefits. His big mistake is his lack of awareness of its very temporary nature.

Robbity

 

[MikePea]

Wow ! This gets interesting.
By the way. Who or what are these Ketones. Are they a new group ?