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Vitamin D & B12

C

carol43

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,198
Location
South Nottinghamshire
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Recently I paid for a private blood test for check my thyroid function (I have posted elsewhere about this). The one thing this blood test showed was that my my B12 was insufficient and my Vit D was just above insufficient. Showed the doctor the print-out and she ordered another blood test. Needless to say that my TSH was 0.27 (below low reference point) and Serum T4 was 24.2 (above high reference limit) but T3 was in range. Obviously they will now raise my Levothyroxine again after reducing it from 150 to 100, my TSH levels go up and down like a seesaw.

B12 was 288 ng/L (190.0 - 800.0)
Vit D was 61 nmol/L (24.0 - 167.0)

I have read elsewhere that taking Metformin depletes these vitamins so why don't they test for this?

Does anybody think that I need to supplement.
Thanks Carol
 
I read that about metformin too and also that it is a good idea to supplement B12 if we are over 50 regardless of our diet. Many cereals are fortified, but if we are cereal dodgers we miss out. I got my diabetes nurse to check my B12 level (was ok). I had to fight her for it, but agree that it should be routine for diabetics as we are at risk of nerve damage. I take a supplement that I buy myself.
 
I was deficient in D3 (paid for a private test at £28 since my doc wouldn't do it), and have been supplementing since (D3 and K2 together). I was in the insufficient/deficient borderline. After several months of supplementation I felt like a new person, and consider it one of the best things I did for myself.

I'm currently running at around 100nmol/l which is exactly where I want to be, and I intend to have an annual test to check levels.

You might find it worth knowing that our bodies can store Vit D during the summer (from the sunlight) for use in the winter. So at the end of the summer everyone should have nice big stores of it to last through the winter. If you are verging on insufficient now, I think your levels might well drop considerably more during the shorter days of winter.
 
Brunneria said:
I was deficient in D3 (paid for a private test at £28 since my doc wouldn't do it), and have been supplementing since (D3 and K2 together). I was in the insufficient/deficient borderline. After several months of supplementation I felt like a new person, and consider it one of the best things I did for myself.

I'm currently running at around 100nmol/l which is exactly where I want to be, and I intend to have an annual test to check levels.

You might find it worth knowing that our bodies can store Vit D during the summer (from the sunlight) for use in the winter. So at the end of the summer everyone should have nice big stores of it to last through the winter. If you are verging on insufficient now, I think your levels might well drop considerably more during the shorter days of winter.
Click to expand...

I asked my dietitian about this and she didn't know. What kind of a dietitian was she I wonder?! She advised me to spend 20-30 minutes in the midday sun in summer. Yeah right. I have the complexion of a ghost so I wont be doing that.

May I ask what dose of D3 you take? I am in Amazon and there is a choice. Thanks.
 
:)

I'm currently on 2,000 a day, as a maintenance dose. With 100 units of K2
- actually, I am really on 10,000 every 5 days, because I accidentally clicked the wrong bloomin' button, and ended up with a higher dose than I intended. But hey, it works! lol.

When I was correcting my deficiency, I took 5,000 -10,000 a day with 300 units of K2

I am with you on the ghost thing. I am v pale, and any sun brings out horrible brown splotches of sun damage dating from my childhood and teens, before I learned to hide from the sun and give myself Vit D deficiency!
 
Brunneria said:
:)

I'm currently on 2,000 a day, as a maintenance dose. With 100 units of K2
- actually, I am really on 10,000 every 5 days, because I accidentally clicked the wrong bloomin' button, and ended up with a higher dose than I intended. But hey, it works! lol.

When I was correcting my deficiency, I took 5,000 -10,000 a day with 300 units of K2

I am with you on the ghost thing. I am v pale, and any sun brings out horrible brown splotches of sun damage dating from my childhood and teens, before I learned to hide from the sun and give myself Vit D deficiency!
Click to expand...
Thanks m'dear. My risk of osteoporosis has recently gone up so will get some D3. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. D'oh!
 
carol43 said:
Recently I paid for a private blood test for check my thyroid function (I have posted elsewhere about this). The one thing this blood test showed was that my my B12 was insufficient and my Vit D was just above insufficient. Showed the doctor the print-out and she ordered another blood test. Needless to say that my TSH was 0.27 (below low reference point) and Serum T4 was 24.2 (above high reference limit) but T3 was in range. Obviously they will now raise my Levothyroxine again after reducing it from 150 to 100, my TSH levels go up and down like a seesaw.

B12 was 288 ng/L (190.0 - 800.0)
Vit D was 61 nmol/L (24.0 - 167.0)

I have read elsewhere that taking Metformin depletes these vitamins so why don't they test for this?

Does anybody think that I need to supplement.
Thanks Carol
Click to expand...

Carol, looks like both Vit D and B12 are both fairly well within range. I've just had mine done for the first time ever, as part of a pretty wide panel, and mine came back at 404 and 80 respectively, so I'm happy with that.

Personally, I'll always try to avoid a supplement where I can. I try to eat a decent diet and am fortunate to spend much of the cooler times overseas where it's hard to avoid the sun. I don't sunbathe, but just going about my business I end up with a deep tan.

On a more general note; does your TSH level fluctuate, even on stable meds, or as they are adjusted?
 
@AndBreathe

Here are my results
Taking 150 mcg Levothyroxine
Feb 2015 - 0.33
Aug 2015 - <0.1
In Sept Levo reduced to 100mcg
Oct 2015 - 0.59
June 2016- 8.4
In June Levo increased to 125 mcg
Sept 2016 - 0.68
 
Last edited:
@AndBreathe

I wonder if those fluctuations in levels are anything to do with my weight loss (13st 1lb now 9st 10lb)
Seeing a different doctor on Wednesday so will have to see if he knows anything about thyroid.
 
carol43 said:
@AndBreathe

I wonder if those fluctuations in levels are anything to do with my weight loss (13st 1lb now 9st 10lb)
Seeing a different doctor on Wednesday so will have to see if he knows anything about thyroid.
Click to expand...

I've hardly any knowledge on thyroid matters, and I'm pretty certain my test last week was my first ever. The Doc suggested I'd had a test in 2012, but I can't find any record of it on the medical records I can see - either the Test Results are or the area with the historical appointments. But, being the data monster I am, I had to lift the lid on each of my results to gauge them for myself, rather than just relying on the NHS ranges and their assessment.

The panel I had didn't test T3 or T4, which is a shame, as I understand the the TSH level is similar in its usefulness as the Total Cholesterol level is in assessing our lipid levels. Oh well; can't win 'em all.

Vis-a-vis your musing about fluctuating TSH levels and weight loss, bearing in mind my previous statement, these are merely my own knee jerk reaction to your findings.

For me, as I brought my bloods down and trimmed up (not so much weight loss as yourself, but I am now very slight indeed) it seemed like almost my whole body just seemed to run a bit better; almost like it wasn't having to work so hard at anything. I imagine (and don't forget, this is my personal speculation) bearing in mind how central the thyroid function is in so many aspects of our bodily functions, it might take a little time to resettle in the face of significant lifestyle and physical changes. I'll certainly be interested to hear your Doc's feedback.
 
carol43 said:
Recently I paid for a private blood test for check my thyroid function (I have posted elsewhere about this). The one thing this blood test showed was that my my B12 was insufficient and my Vit D was just above insufficient. Showed the doctor the print-out and she ordered another blood test. Needless to say that my TSH was 0.27 (below low reference point) and Serum T4 was 24.2 (above high reference limit) but T3 was in range. Obviously they will now raise my Levothyroxine again after reducing it from 150 to 100, my TSH levels go up and down like a seesaw.

B12 was 288 ng/L (190.0 - 800.0)
Vit D was 61 nmol/L (24.0 - 167.0)

I have read elsewhere that taking Metformin depletes these vitamins so why don't they test for this?

Does anybody think that I need to supplement.
Thanks Carol
Click to expand...
You say your vitamin B12 is insufficient and your vitamin D just above insufficient yet they are both well within the normal range quoted.

You also say that you expect your levothyroxine dose to be increased although your TSH was low. TSH drops in response to circulating thyroxine levels so if the TSH is too low, this suggests that the levothyroxine dose might be too high. However, as your T3 is within the normal range, whether to change dose would might be based on whether you feel well or have any symptoms of over-treatment. It can take a bit of adjusting to get the dose right. An explanation of what your GP is looking at can be found here:- https://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1804926956&linkID=74034&cook=yes
 
@Dark Horse
Thank you for that.
I didn't find that when I did my search for explanations. I did find that taking Levo can increase blood pressure and obviously taking Metformin reduces essential vitamins but we are never told these things, just keep taking even more tablets.
I hope that this doctor understands thyroid and will report back on Wednesday or perhaps Thursday if he raises my blood pressure too much by telling me cr*p again.
 
Diet can improve your B12. Although excess is meant to be wee'd out I haven't found it is.

Years ago.. Declared with pernicious anaemia. Put on b12 injections..

Pre cancer mine went up to 1598. After cancer removed it dropped to 450. Then 6 months ago back up to 890.

Due to my limited food being digested I have for last 6 months watched the amount of every vitamin I had, every day. I had even started to think that High B12 was linked to my cancer. However, On close monitoring of vitamins and food my level of B12 has reduced to 440 (as of Friday).

Prior to my cancer I ate, what I thought was so healthily with veg n salads but no longer have records of exact foods, but I haven't ate processed, manufactured foods for nigh on a decade.

The difference now to lower my B12 and indeed now cause me (iron) anaemia is due to my inability to eat meat, fats, grains, flour.

I would personally check out the foods you are eating to see how much B12 and D you are getting from foods.

I have D3 liquid as I have intolerance to binding on tablets. Mine is 4000 iu a day and D3 comes in at over 140 last time it was checked. Bones looked really healthy on my DEXA scan too.
 
@donnellysdogs
I eat prawns, crab, tuna, salmon, sea bass, cod. sardines, chicken, beef, duck, gammon, quiche, mushrooms, cauliflower, spinach, leeks, peas, runner beans, tomatoes, lots of cheese, blueberries, strawberries, coffee with cream, walnuts, did I mention cheese. I'm sure there are other things.
 
Do ypu know what folate was?

Recommendations supposedly are?
The best sources of folate include beans, lentils, asparagus, green leafy vegetables, avocado, broccoli, oranges, bread, mango, papaya and pomegranate.
To increase your vitamin B-12, eat seafood, fortified soy products, beef, lamb, dairy products and eggs. Iron-rich foods include seafood, nuts, seeds, beef, lamb, beans, whole grains, tofu, dark leafy greens and cocoa powder.

My levels definitely increased with making smoothies which included avocado, spinach and orange. The only foods I can now eat out of the above lists are avocado and eggs so I believe this is why all my levels have dropped.
For me I'm trying to add in 30g of gluten free rice crispies as they are fortified but even these aren't tolerated. Smoothies too seem to be off limits..

May be worthwhile listing down the values of vits that you think you're having for your foods. I don't take a multi vitamin solely because vitam A
And E I'm quite high in...it would be lots cheaper if I could.
I weigh everything too, just to get totally accuracy. Most people could dothis once and then know they get about sufficient vits n minerals but I'm a little odd with my stomach.

I really would take just an one off time to list foods and check your overall intake of everything...
 
I agree with @Indy51 but as with a lot of GPs (all of mine)... If levels are still pretty much in normal classification the GPs can just file under "normal".
With a few outside target level they may just say (like my GPs) that our bodies change and will do another one in 6 months.

It is definitely worth raising with GP.
 
A number of people appear to have vastly improved their Hashimoto's disease using versions of the Paleo Autoimmune Diet. A few authors you might find helpful: Dr Terry Wahls, Dr Amy Myers, Dr Datis Kharazian, Isabella Wenz, Elle Russ and others. Thyroid seems to be one area of health that is very poorly treated by conventional western medicine. Even the length of time to diagnosis seems excessively long, let alone getting good control :(

Is it possible to get a referral to see an endocrinologist?
 
@donnellysdogs @Indy51
I am seeing a different doctor on Wednesday, the last one just says lots of people have Hashimoto, just dismissed it. According to the GP NOTES site I am being over-treated. I never had any symptoms when first diagnosed and apart from this last test, the only time the T4 & T3 were checked was August 2015 and then they were TSH - <0.1, T4 - 0.29, T3 - 5.4 and they reduced Levo from 150 to 100 so they obviously want my levels higher.
Will see what the new doctor says on Wednesday.
 
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