Alternative con artists

[ChrisSamsDad]

Is that like the" take your metformin like a good boy" and follow the eatwell plate kinda medicine?

Once again, just because science-based medicine isn't perfect is no reason to throw out the whole idea and pull fanciful ideas out of your bum and use them instead. it's a reason to work harder to make it better.

 

[bulkbiker]

Once again, just because science-based medicine isn't perfect is no reason to throw out the whole idea and pull fanciful ideas out of your bum and use them instead. it's a reason to work harder to make it better.

Yes Chris but the problem is that because it is "science" then most of the practitioners won't open their eyes to look at any alternative..therein lies the problem.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

Yes Chris but the problem is that because it is "science" then most of the practitioners won't open their eyes to look at any alternative..therein lies the problem.

Well, given that science is the combination of the best methods of finding out the actual truth in nature, what actually are the alternatives - let's not bother with the truth? There are plenty of alternative treatments suggested, and the sensible way is to test if they work, and if you get sufficient evidence that they don't work - like homeopathy, chiropracty, reiki, prayers or acupuncture, stop using them, and move on. When you find something that does seem to work, use more science to find out what's actually going on, in order to improve it or find a better way.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I came late to this thread and have only read about half of it so far but it reminded me of and old story. Red Buttons was an American comedian who was once asked what he thought of faith healers. He said, "Show me one who does teeth". It may not be totally on topic or further the argument about unscientific medicine but you have to admit it was a good answer.

 

[AndBreathe]

but did he fix it the Chiropractic way, by realigning your magnetic flow and fixing the chiropractic subluxations, or did he give you physio, massage and exercise? Scans and x-rays won't show subluxations.

I'll probably get banned for saying this again, as I have before, but your anecdote is irrelevant - it's not evidence, there are a number of ways you could have got better, but given that not only the theory but practice of chiropractic is proven not to be effective, except in a very limited set of circumstances, it wasn't likely to have been it, unless by accident.

As it transpired the issue I had originated in my neck, with knock-ons into my shoulder and elbow. To be honest, that the pain went away was good enough for me when two years of other therapies had not budged it, he could have waved a feather over it and chanted, whilst wearing unmatched socks, for all I cared.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

I came late to this thread and have only read about half of it so far but it reminded me of and old story. Red Buttons was an American comedian who was once asked what he thought of faith healers. He said, "Show me one who does teeth". It may not be totally on topic or further the argument about unscientific medicine but you have to admit it was a good answer.

I heard something similar about prayers curing people - why is it he can only cure things which are internal and hidden - no-ones ever persuaded him to grow an amputated limb back for them.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

As it transpired the issue I had originated in my neck, with knock-ons into my shoulder and elbow. To be honest, that the pain went away was good enough for me when two years of other therapies had not budged it, he could have waved a feather over it and chanted, whilst wearing unmatched socks, for all I cared.

I had the same thing, got whiplash banging my head on a doorframe, and then came shoulder pain, upper arm and then elbow - fairly common according to my physio, and easily treated with some exercises and massages.

 

[bulkbiker]

Well, given that science is the combination of the best methods of finding out the actual truth in nature, what actually are the alternatives - let's not bother with the truth? There are plenty of alternative treatments suggested, and the sensible way is to test if they work, and if you get sufficient evidence that they don't work - like homeopathy, chiropracty, reiki, prayers or acupuncture, stop using them, and move on. When you find something that does seem to work, use more science to find out what's actually going on, in order to improve it or find a better way.

I agree completely but why can't scientist (and doctors)s do that when it comes to diet.. sorry I've just watched the Panorama frightfest from last night and the far more balanced welsh programme about carbs and fat.

 

[Oldvatr]

Once again, just because science-based medicine isn't perfect is no reason to throw out the whole idea and pull fanciful ideas out of your bum and use them instead. it's a reason to work harder to make it better.

Are you talking to a mirror? Seems most what you say on this thread is also irrelevant and applies aqually to your own views. I think that you too << pull fanciful ideas out of your bum>> to quote a maestro in that art.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I have another offering. My family have a tribal memory about a cure for the hacking type of cough. You get a turnip (definitely not a parsnip). You slice your turnip and place the slices in a breakfast bowl with sugar between each slice. Put it somewhere where the flies won't get at it and wait. A clear fluid is produced. Two teaspoonfuls of that and no cough. You can have as many teaspoonfuls as you like since I am not clear what a "dose" is.

I tried it to see if it was nonsense and it worked so well that I still use it if I get the tickly hacking cough that cough medicines don't help with.

This is alternative medicine I suppose. It will not be accepted by the medical fraternity since it has not had a double blind random control trial but it does raise some questions like....

Are there any more remedies like that out there?

How can I make money out of it?

and so on

 

[Oldvatr]

I have another offering. My family have a tribal memory about a cure for the hacking type of cough. You get a turnip (definitely not a parsnip). You slice your turnip and place the slices in a breakfast bowl with sugar between each slice. Put it somewhere where the flies won't get at it and wait. A clear fluid is produced. Two teaspoonfuls of that and no cough. You can have as many teaspoonfuls as you like since I am not clear what a "dose" is.

I tried it to see if it was nonsense and it worked so well that I still use it if I get the tickly hacking cough that cough medicines don't help with.

This is alternative medicine I suppose. It will not be accepted by the medical fraternity since it has not had a double blind random control trial but it does raise some questions like....

Are there any more remedies like that out there?

How can I make money out of it?

and so on

The clue is probably in the sugar. Would you still use it now? I wonder how bgl is affected. It seems most cough mixtures have sugar or honey or molasses or licorice as a basis, so it is not that alternative to standard OTC remedies.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

The clue is probably in the sugar. Would you still use it now? I wonder how bgl is affected. It seems most cough mixtures have sugar or honey or molasses or licorice as a basis, so it is not that alternative to standard OTC remedies.

I would still use it now since the cure is immediate and the adverse effects are transient. I have used it since diagnosis and it has proved effective. I don't know why it does but it does.

 

[Jaylee]

I would still use it now since the cure is immediate and the adverse effects are transient. I have used it since diagnosis and it has proved effective. I don't know why it does but it does.

Those old treatments. If they work? Why "reinvent the wheel"?

 

[Jaylee]

I heard something similar about prayers curing people - why is it he can only cure things which are internal and hidden - no-ones ever persuaded him to grow an amputated limb back for them.

Because. (In short.) "faith" only improves phycological "well being". Though I feel that's a debate waiting to happen in itself?)
People take these Bible "miracles" all too literal. Which in turn can be used to prey upon the gullible by people believing their own hype..

Back in the late 70s my "RE" class took regular time out to "pray" for the dodgy eye of a class mate..
My "faith" as an 11 year old was tested to the point of destruction at this point.
In this case? The "prayer" only served as a "device" by the teacher to "groom" a vulnerable kid!

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I am sorry, I don't do faith. If someone says believe in me and give me your money I get suspicious. That's just my way.

 

[Indy51]

Are proseletysing science botherers less annoying than proseletysing god botherers? Can anyone tell the difference?

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

Aspirin is not safe for people with certain stomach conditions. I can't have it or any other NSAIDS

Yeah, I'm one of them due to a sometime stomach ulcer. I said 'safer' because it came via a natural remedy, Salysilic Acid, in birch bark, that caused the same gastric problems, but far far worse. Then it was stabilised by a chemist and the side effects reduced.

 

[Oldvatr]

Aspirin is not safe for people with certain stomach conditions. I can't have it or any other NSAIDS

My heart medication also contraindicates NSAIDS. Anyone on a blood thinner is also advised not to use them. Peptic ulcer sufferers too. Obviously hemophiliacs should avoid.

 

[Jaylee]

Are proseletysing science botherers less annoying than proseletysing god botherers? Can anyone tell the difference?

We washed one theory in a "leading brand". The other in a brand new scientific formula.

The results were unsurprising...

"Ah," said the leading brand. "But that's just how we like it to work in it's infinite wisdom..."

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

Are proseletysing science botherers less annoying than proseletysing god botherers? Can anyone tell the difference?

Well, we have more than one book, actual evidence and so far we haven't started slaughtering those who don't agree with us. (Though I'm often sorely tempted).