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Why/how Does Fat Increase Blood Glucose?

qe5rt said:
As a type 1 i can take my bs after a carb rich meal and it will be fine since i injected for the amount of carbs i'm eating. Hours later it will not be fine if that meal also contained loads of fat. The reduction of glycemic load because of the fat does nut fully explain this as i can see two clear spikes in my BS after eating a high carb and high fat meal, the first i'll be able to predict in some way and inject for, the second it much harder. In terms of an evening meal the effects usually occur during the night with about a 7-8 hours delay from my last meal. Regardless of the glycemic load of the meal the carbs i've eaten will be digested by then so something else must explain the rise. Add to this that the carbs in something like garlic bread are mostly simple carbs (it's usually made with white bread) even with the high amount of fat the carbs will be processed by then. Keep in mind that in terms of glycemic load you're still looking at a small spike (as apposed to a very steep spike) shortly after the meal and a more gradual release over 3-4 hours, not a (second) spike that's 7-8 hours later.
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One of those spikes may be protein being converted to glucose especially during the night. Or it may be dawn phenomenon as you wake up.
 
tim2000s said:
Right, but you are not an insulin dependent diabetic. You have functioning beta cells, so the discussion isn't really relevant to you.
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Hi,
Sorry.
I felt this a little harsh on @bulkbiker .

Isn't the OP non insulin dependant. thus the "relevance" of insulin used in the links, throwing the scent track a little regarding the OPs reasoning on the query..?

Personally I feel fat just slows down the metabolism with the carbs which can scupper the timing of the insulin profile on the carbs & protein too?
 
zand said:
Then it's not relevant to the OP either! I for one found what @noblehead said to be very helpful even though I'm not one of the elite T1s of this forum. If eating fat with carbs increases insulin resistance because of increased trigs even temporarily then it's very relevant to me in my fight to lose weight.

Yep I get it, I'm a T2, what do I know?! I'll butt out too.
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As far as i'm concerned this is actually a T2 diet controlled with or without metformin discussion. Excuse my interjection. I have no wish to make this topic T1 heavy... ;)
 
Oldvatr said:
One of those spikes may be protein being converted to glucose especially during the night. Or it may be dawn phenomenon as you wake up.
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I usually eat a high protein meal (or drink a protein shake) of about 40 grams of protein before i go to bed which doesn't effect my blood glucose in the same way. Neither does dawn phenomenon, which gives me a small spike when i'm snoozing (waking up) but an high fat meal gives me a large spike in the middle of the night. The spike is to the point where i wake up and inject more insulin. Keep in mind that i'm talking about the rare occasions where i'm eating a "traditional" Belgian "frietkot" (sorry for the Dutch but that really doesn't translate well) meal with french fries and 4-5 pieces of fried meat. Now that i have the Freestyle libre i'm actually a bit curious as to seeing how it exactly influences me.
 
qe5rt said:
I usually eat a high protein meal (or drink a protein shake) of about 40 grams of protein before i go to bed which doesn't effect my blood glucose in the same way. Neither does dawn phenomenon, which gives me a small spike when i'm snoozing (waking up) but an high fat meal gives me a large spike in the middle of the night. The spike is to the point where i wake up and inject more insulin. Keep in mind that i'm talking about the rare occasions where i'm eating a "traditional" Belgian "frietkot" (sorry for the Dutch but that really doesn't translate well) meal with french fries and 4-5 pieces of fried meat. Now that i have the Freestyle libre i'm actually a bit curious as to seeing how it exactly influences me.
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Are you sure it is not the French fries causing the spike?
 
Jaylee said:
Hi,
Sorry.
I felt this a little harsh on @bulkbiker .

Isn't the OP non insulin dependant. thus the "relevance" of insulin used in the links, throwing the scent track a little regarding the OPs reasoning on the query..?

Personally I feel fat just slows down the metabolism with the carbs which can scupper the timing of the insulin profile on the carbs & protein too?
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I totally agree with you @Jaylee That comment was out of order in this context as you so rightly point out. This is not the first time I have seen this comment from a type 1 and have had it levelled at me on a few occasions. Just because we are not on insulin does not mean that we are unqualified to add comments, since we often have T1 friends, and also do research across topic Knowledge is not an open and shut book, and is there to be shared.

I hate it when people on this site try to censor our postings. Instead they should limit themselves to making corrections where we post poor info, since this too adds to the knowledge. These are supposed to be discussions after all, not dictats.
 
Freema said:
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=438

how much of fat converts to glucose

and how long does it take to change to glucose
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As a T2 not on insulin, I have in my travels on this site come across advice given out on how to bolus for T1 IR, and there is a factor that can be applied to get the bolus closer than just standard carb correction. Lost the report, so cannot post what this adjustment is, but maybe a passing T1D can advise on this.

On the meantime:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677112/
 
Oldvatr said:
I totally agree with you @Jaylee That comment was out of order in this context as you so rightly point out. This is not the first time I have seen this comment from a type 1 and have had it levelled at me on a few occasions. Just because we are not on insulin does not mean that we are unqualified to add comments, since we often have T1 friends, and also do research across topic Knowledge is not an open and shut book, and is there to be shared.

I hate it when people on this site try to censor our postings. Instead they should limit themselves to making corrections where we post poor info, since this too adds to the knowledge. These are supposed to be discussions after all, not dictats.
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Hey, don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for @tim2000s the Freemas link did say it was dodgy for insulin users.. However. Freema is trying to diet control on the mets..
I just sincerely hope Tim can "revise" the context regarding @bulkbiker ??

I was enjoying the input from them both... :cool:
 
Jaylee said:
Hey, don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for @tim2000s the Freemas link did say it was dodgy for insulin users.. However. Freema is trying to diet control on the mets..
I just sincerely hope Tim can "revise" the context regarding @bulkbiker ??

I was enjoying the input from them both... :cool:
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Yep me too :) Discussions like this looked at from both T1 and T2 perspectives are good. If we are willing to do so we can all learn from each other. :)
 
I have been T2 as well as now T1. I need to eat the same way as both. Vlc, moderate protein as high fat. Saturated fat and fried foods ( which I don't eat) make me insulin resistant for days and I fight higher sugars. Protein has a profound effect on my bs. I can see all this clearer as a type 1 as I find different foods in different quantities require insulin in different ways. Without fat I get a quick sharp spike even with just protein alone. Even add a few veggies (5 carbs ) and I spike. Now add some avocado and olive oil and much streadier. If I eat more than two oz protein at a time I need to split boluses or I hypo first. All macros require different insulin loads at different timing.
As a type 2 I could walk it off, as a type 1 I can take a correction bolus. But the different macros come in at different times and quantity makes a big diffference. I cannot random eat or I never know what I'm going to get. So I stick to the same macros at each meal and the same bolus. Yes, I still weigh my
Proteins. At least I kno what I'm going to get. Basically I think we are all pretty much the same. We are just at different progression and have different bs goals.
As I stated in the beginning I still eat the same way no matter which type I am/ was. One is really no easier than the other. Just different means of correcting bs. It's all a hassle lol
 
it seems about 10% of the fat we eat is converted into glucose but in such a slow rate, that when we still ourselves do produce insuline it will hardly affect our blood glucose, but when we dont it of cause will...
 
Jaylee said:
Hey, don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for @tim2000s the Freemas link did say it was dodgy for insulin users.. However. Freema is trying to diet control on the mets..
I just sincerely hope Tim can "revise" the context regarding @bulkbiker ??

I was enjoying the input from them both... :cool:
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It was an unusual post from Tim2000s, but not unusual on this forum. I tried to keep my response general purpose,
 
but of cause 10 % of 50 grams of fat and 10% of 350 grams of fat is far from the same number ;)

and if it creates insuline resistance maybe it has some importance what amount one eats and to what extent it contributes to the very problem that is in the first hand the diabetic type 2´s ground-problem
 
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I am T2 not on insulin but do have several members of family who are T1 so have found this thread very interesting and informative. Though have no insights on the subject matter that would be interesting, so though following the thread closely have not posted but I would like to think if I had any thing of value to add I would be able to without being made to feel like an interloper because I am T2 and don't inject.
 
Freema said:
thanks yes you are maybe right, it seems I lost weight more rapidly when not doing higher fat diet and very high proteins , but maybe it is because of normal weight stalling after longer time weightloss instead... just wondering
hope it is not due to self-induced insuline resistance...lately with the higher fats
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I addded weight on high protein high fat. I have to eat healthy fats in moderation too. One mistake I made and I feel protein fats inflammed my arthritic joints.
 
Hi guys, I'll admit that maybe I let frustration get the better of me in the earlier post. The point being that the initial post related to the use of insulin and the reaction of people's bodies when they have no endogenous insulin, such that it could be either type 2 or type 1, which is why the term used was "insulin dependent". I felt it was unhelpful for someone to post and say "Well fat doesn't do that to me so I don't need to comment any further". Anyone who is insulin dependent is very likely to see it happen, and that doesn't denigrate as to type. I apologise if I wasn't clear in what was written.
 
jonbvn said:
Are you sure it is not the French fries causing the spike?
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The french fries cause the first spike, it is offset by the amount of fat in the meal but i do have a noticeable first spike, well not really a spike but the amount of insulin i inject is about 2.5 x the normal when eating such a meal, if there wasn't a direct effect from the food i would have lows. The second spike is much much later. There's a noticeable second effect which only occurs when the meal is both high carb and high fat. Just eating high carb, high fat or high protein doesn't effect me in the same way only a high carb/fat meal has this effect on me. What has been explained in the articles seems to explain the cause.
 
@tim2000s Well I'm T2 not on insulin (but we're all on insulin one way or another really aren't we?;)) and I get the spike 4-5 hours after having a HCHF meal, so I guess some other T2s must as well.
 
zand said:
@tim2000s Well I'm T2 not on insulin (but we're all on insulin one way or another really aren't we?;)) and I get the spike 4-5 hours after having a HCHF meal, so I guess some other T2s must as well.
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And you're the first person to mention it @zand. Has anyone else tested enough to find this out? It would be very interesting to find out.
 
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