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Obesity - The Post Mortem - BBC 1 London - 10.40 pm Tonight

  • Thread starter Thread starter asparagusp
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I would rather be obese than in a magic wand scenario.

Mind you I am not exactly sure as to what a magic wand scenario is.
 
Daibell said:
Perhaps it's worth saying that dieting always, in the end results in weight loss, so those who say they have failed to lose weight thru diet do not have the discipline needed or a suitable diet.
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No, it is NOT worth saying.
Trotting out trite banalities like that is both offensive and unnecessary on a support forum.

You have been here a while, haven't you? And you regularly emphasis your slimness, compared with all the fat T2s, don't you?

Considering the length of time, and the number of posts you have read in that time I am astonished that you feel it appropriate to say such a thing. Don't you bother to read the posts by people who struggle, on a daily basis, for decades? The ones who have tried every diet on the planet, only to discover that a hormonal issue causes massive water retention, or an eating disorder, or they have a broken metabolism?

Odd, because considering your medical history I would have expected a little more compassion. Or empathy. Or tolerance. For those whose bodies don't fit into NHS boxes, and who can't get the treatment they need.
 
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Avocado Sevenfold said:
I don't think it would have mattered if the poor woman had been hit by a bus. The fact was her internal organs were covered with excess fat, her heart muscle was enlarged from carrying around excess weight etc none of which can be healthy.

I challenge anyone to say they would rather be obese than not in a magic wand scenario.
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Her heart was enlarged because she had heart failure. Her lungs had fluid because she had heart failure. Her kidneys were scarred becasuse she had heart failure. Cause by either untreated or untreatable hypertension for a long time. We have no way of knowing if the hypertension was caused by obesity. Many thin people have hypertension and heart failure.
 
Daibell said:
Perhaps it's worth saying that dieting always, in the end results in weight loss, so those who say they have failed to lose weight thru diet do not have the discipline needed or a suitable diet. Newsreels of areas of starvation in the world show the effects of not enough food. My wife has a much lower metabolism than me and to achieve the weight loss she wants she has to have more discipline than me but she does have that and the results prove it. She is not diabetic but seriously low-carbs. It does work. When the body is obese, excess fat is deposited in many different organs e.g. liver, pancreas, circulatory system etc and each of these suffers reduced efficiency. The increased weight thru the obesity increases bone joint damage, reduces mobility and so on. Being too thin may not be good and being slightly overweight may not be a problem but obesity really is.
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Bolding is mine to emphasis the point I wish to address. Your wife doesnt have diabetes. Or insulin resistance. Her situation is different and cant be compared to someone who is trying to lose wight with insulin resistance. Low carbing isnt a universal cure all. It may halt weight gain, I dont know, but for some of us it doesnt result in weight loss.
 
serenity648 said:
Her heart was enlarged because she had heart failure. Her lungs had fluid because she had heart failure. Her kidneys were scarred becasuse she had heart failure. Cause by either untreated or untreatable hypertension for a long time. We have no way of knowing if the hypertension was caused by obesity. Many thin people have hypertension and heart failure.
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Hearts become enlarged when they are overworked lugging excess weight about every day. Not just in this woman's case. If you believe that being obese is not unhealthy then I cannot change your mind.
 
Avocado Sevenfold said:
Hearts become enlarged when they are overworked lugging excess weight about every day. Not just in this woman's case. If you believe that being obese is not unhealthy then I cannot change your mind.
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so what about athletes or people who live at altitude and have an enlarged heart? are they also unhealthy? it was the high blood pressure which was the problem. Yes, some obese people are unhealthy. So are some thin people. But to say that all obese people are unhealthy because they are obese is untrue.
 
Being obese is almost always a symptom, not the cause.

Take metabolic syndrome - that unholy cluster of conditions:
increased blood pressure
high fasting blood sugar
excess body fat around waist (apple shape)
abnormal cholesterol (high trigs, reduced HDL)

None of those require the person to be obese, yet they all imply ill health.
Equally, it is perfectly possible to be obese and yet to have NONE of the symptoms of metabolic syndrome.

Interestingly, I recently saw a fascinating talk (link below) suggesting that the evidence is now pointing to the root cause of metabolic syndrome being insulin resistance. And we know that not all fat people have that, don't we?


Now, I am not arguing that being fat is a good thing. But I am saying that being fat is not nearly as bad for you as many other things, which then make you more likely to get fat.

If you take me as an example
My priorities are, in this order:
- reducing insulin resistance (LC and IF)
- maintaining my excellent cholesterol ratios
- keeping my blood glucose to below 7.5mmol/l at all times
- maybe losing some weight

Anyone kidding themselves that losing weight will sort out all of the things that are wrong with them is in for a nasty shock in a few years time.
 
serenity648 said:
so what about athletes or people who live at altitude and have an enlarged heart? are they also unhealthy? it was the high blood pressure which was the problem. Yes, some obese people are unhealthy. So are some thin people. But to say that all obese people are unhealthy because they are obese is untrue.
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I don't know where you are going with this. Obesity is not healthy. I'm out. I wish you all the best with your health with the cards you have been dealt :)
 
Brunneria said:
If you take me as an example
My priorities are, in this order:
- reducing insulin resistance (LC and IF)
- maintaining my excellent cholesterol ratios
- keeping my blood glucose to below 7.5mmol/l at all times
- maybe losing some weight

Anyone kidding themselves that losing weight will sort out all of the things that are wrong with them is in for a nasty shock in a few years time.
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I have bolded the bit i am asking about. I assume that LC is low carb............but what is IF please?
 
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serenity648 said:
I have bolded the bit i am asking about. I assume that LC is low carb............but what is IF please?
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Intermittent fasting. :)

There is some info used by Fung and Dietdoctor that suggests that while low carb has wonderful effect on reducing the insulin produced to deal with food, it often has little effect on background insulin levels. Fung says low carbing is only half the story.
- those of us who produce our own insulin do so 24/7, as background insulin, with additional bursts when we digest food.

Fasting reduces background insulin resistance. Low carb reduces dietary insulin resistance.

Those of us who don't lose weight through low carbing often have high background insulin which isn't addressed by cutting carbs from the diet. So we have to go to the next step (intermittent fasting) to try and reduce background insulin resistance.

Hope that makes sense. You would need to go to Fung for the full details.

My insulin resistance is from PCOS, medication, obesity (yes, it IS a factor), variable exercise capacity/sedentaryness, plus it then increases if I eat carbs. But low carbing does not lower my insulin resistance enough to lose weight.
 
serenity648 said:
yes. obesity is talked about as if it is easy to lose weight. For some, it may well be easy. For others, if dieting doesnt work, what is left to try?
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I'm going for surgery. I've tried everything else. I'm handing in the towel as I cannot starve myself without at least some supervision. I have my kids to think about!
 
serenity648 said:
I thought bariatric surgery involved dieting and being unable to eat. So I would have to starve to, maybe, lose weight, as 100 cals a day maintains my weight. I wonder what people eat after such surgery. Do they get malnourished after a while. And what about 10 years down the line...............
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They are on multivitamins for life. They eat ice cubes worth of pureed food at first then lumpier food then normal food. Like a toddlers stomach.
Some re-add weight due to liquidizing mars bars. What a liberty when surgery isn't for that kind of eating!
I will eat low carb and low to medium fat. Maybe diabetes will do one (remission).
 
serenity648 said:
so what about athletes or people who live at altitude and have an enlarged heart? are they also unhealthy? it was the high blood pressure which was the problem. Yes, some obese people are unhealthy. So are some thin people. But to say that all obese people are unhealthy because they are obese is untrue.
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The lady in the autopsies heart was enlarged by the high BP. It was stretched to capacity without the benefit of strengthening the wall muscles associated with athletes? The consiquences of her heart failure put fluid on her lungs? Causing shortnes of breath slowing her capacity regarding any excersise down further... It was sadly a "catch 22".

I felt the program overall was educational for people of all statures.. High BP (for instance.) could happen to anyone.

I'm still waiting for some sort of comment about the YouTube autopsy (that @Tipetoo kindly found,) from @asparagusp ??
Because the way I see it? Bonfire night has come early with a certain OP lighting the "blue touch paper" & not actually watching the highlighted program in question. This is not the first time either.....
 
mahola said:
I think asparagus is high on oatcakes.
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I saw just under a quarter of a slice taken out of her avatar the other night..
Today it looks like the cake is intact..... Nice patch job! ;)
 
Yes someone with very restricted eating, not by choice- yes we get malnourished.
There are conditions called colonic inertia and gastroparesis that are awful and can be contributed to diabetes as well as being idiopathic or opiate induced.

People with this can eat and within 30 mins vomit, nausea, distended stomachs (like bing 9 months pregnant) a colon and stomach that makes you feel nausea and full pretty mych all the time even when you don't eat.
Many sufferers are tube fed ot jpegs. It is a chronic disabling, painful illness..

Lack of eating does affect your body. I have to watch all my bloods for ones indicating malnutition and anaemia. I eat a tea plate of food a day and on a good day will eat 100g yogurt or a homemade smoothie.

I spend £100 a month on vitamin tablets as multi vitamins overdose me on certain fat soluble vitamins that the body stores. So I buy the best, purest tablets we can afford. Without these, I haven't got any doubt at all I would be in serious trouble.

This is a good photo shows the effect of a few teaspoons of yogurt on me... on a good day if I stood behind a lampost you wouldn't see me!! IMG_1478197893.606816.jpg

This is what malnutrition can look like-wven in England and not a 3rd world country...
Yes, vitamins are for life. Some of us thinnies would love to go out and eat and put some weight on etc... we can't because we know the pain and trouble to follow within 30 mins and it can last for weeks from just one "normal" eating.
 
ickihun said:
I agree because they are still alive and healthy. Thank god for some mercies.
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I Wonder how many "healthy" donate to science..? Unless caught up in a "murder scene"..

Total respect to the last wishes of the woman in the documentary...
 
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