Confused about fasting!

[Ange G]

I wonder if anyone, particularly those that fast as part of controlling their glucose levels can help me. I was diagnosed with type 2 last in August hba1c 52 the latest in October is down to 49. I am trying to manage without meds for as long as I can. I have cut out all processed carbs and food, sticking to fresh meat, fish, salad, veg and now very little fruit, I drink 2 to 3 cups of coffee per day with a sweetner not a spoon of sugar like I used to and drink plenty of water as this has always been my preferred day time drink. I have knocked the couple of evening glasses of red wine on the head since my diagnosis and of course anything sweet is out of the question.
I have been really interested reading about the benefits of fasting and have given it I try over the last week by skipping a few meals. I have managed quite well and my weight is coming off nicely though I still need to loose around 2 stone but my bloods have gone up and not down. My morning readings are up from a usual 6-7 to 8.5 having not eaten for 16 hours, my premeals are up from 5-6 to 7.5 having not eaten for 8 hours. What am I doing wrong? Could my liver be doing this to me? or maybe it just doesn't agree with me. I really want lower readings and will try anything. Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[Freema]

welcome here Ange G

yes it can be your liver doing that, there is among diabtics type 2 many more with an overactive liver, and many more that has a fatty liver too, and maybe the problem has somthing to do with fatty liver as well.

but back to the benifits of fasting, according to JasonFung , the famous canadian doctor, that really promotes fasting for diabetics and obese peope in general, according to him , fasting do especially help lowering the extremely raised insuline levels that almost all type 2 diabetics and very obese people do have initially, and when it comes to fat burning, there is a problem when having very raised insuline as the switch in the body to change from mainly burning glucose over to burning fat has something to do with the levels of insuline, and if the insuline is never really low , human fat-burning is much harder to get going in a larger scale..


According again to Fung human switch to fatburning really only happens after about 9 hours of fasting, and at that time levels of insuline has lowered rather much, and some people has to eat very few carbs to remain fat-buring and lower in insuline maybe because the insuline is far too high almost all the time.
He also has done experiments with people fasting , measuring their insuline levels while fasting in more days, and came to the conclusion that after 3 days of fasting (as I recall it on 500 calories a day) after these 3 days of fasting the insuline had lowered to almost the lowest it would get in fasting, and didn´t lower much more when fasting more days...therefor Jason Fung has some thoughts of people fasting only for a few days would make a great difference even when not having the strength to fast like for many weeks... but he also have had patients that had been fasting for more than a year, superwised by him though..

He claims that fasting is natural for humans and always has been and that this is the natural pattern in humans to gain weight and then loose weight when hunting and gathering foods for the next meal maybe today maybe tomorrow..and that fasting is actually healthy to humans, there are other benifits from fasting, but it takes time to get all that knowledge..

but if you like to hear theory , then Jason Fung has a lot of videos in youtube

 

[BarbaraG]

Could you say a bit more about when you fast? What is the last meal you have, and how long do you fast for?

I started eating LCHF in July (have had diabetes many years) and added fasting about six weeks later. I then found I spontaneously didn't want breakfast, so I do 16/8 - 18/6 most days, i.e. I eat lunch (usually about 1pm) and an evening meal between 6-7, rarely a snack in the evening.

On the days when I extend the fast out to 24 hours (or longer) - the following day is usually my lowest morning reading of the week. But it's not uncommon for a before lunch reading to be slightly higher than a first thing in the morning reading, i.e. my BG continues to rise slightly despite not eating. Later in the afternoon of that day (having not eaten since 7pm the previous night) is when I see it come down to 4.something.

 

[MikePea]

Have you considered an exercise routine. If you are able this can help balance the diet and fasting. Keep searching for answers.

 

[Ange G]

Thank you for your help. I do a vigorous walk for 20-30 minutes after eating but have slipped at bit since the weather has gone colder. I am going to continue with this, I want feel in control of my erratic sugar levels and have a say about what it's doing to me. I know I may end up on meds like my brother and twin sister but not until I have tried everything myself.
This forum is my saviour at the moment whilst I continue to learn. Thank you.

 

[kokhongw]

My morning readings are up from a usual 6-7 to 8.5 having not eaten for 16 hours, my premeals are up from 5-6 to 7.5 having not eaten for 8 hours. What am I doing wrong? Could my liver be doing this to me? or maybe it just doesn't agree with me.

Yes it will usually goes up before it comes down...for some people it could take a couple of sessions more of intermittent fasting. For others it may require even longer multi-day fast 3-5 days for more immediate change. But at the end of the day, what we want is a sustainable change.

But when we focus on managing post meal glucose, the fasting glucose level will normalize gradually.

 

[walnut_face]

Hi @Ange G you might want to ask santa for a copy of the 5:2 diet, best read in dead tree format. I found it a very inspiring read that helped me prepare for fasting type days

 

[Kittylitter]

I wonder if anyone, particularly those that fast as part of controlling their glucose levels can help me. I was diagnosed with type 2 last in August hba1c 52 the latest in October is down to 49. I am trying to manage without meds for as long as I can. I have cut out all processed carbs and food, sticking to fresh meat, fish, salad, veg and now very little fruit, I drink 2 to 3 cups of coffee per day with a sweetner not a spoon of sugar like I used to and drink plenty of water as this has always been my preferred day time drink. I have knocked the couple of evening glasses of red wine on the head since my diagnosis and of course anything sweet is out of the question.
I have been really interested reading about the benefits of fasting and have given it I try over the last week by skipping a few meals. I have managed quite well and my weight is coming off nicely though I still need to loose around 2 stone but my bloods have gone up and not down. My morning readings are up from a usual 6-7 to 8.5 having not eaten for 16 hours, my premeals are up from 5-6 to 7.5 having not eaten for 8 hours. What am I doing wrong? Could my liver be doing this to me? or maybe it just doesn't agree with me. I really want lower readings and will try anything. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Sounds familiar I thought I was almost pre-diabetic with an HB thingy at 41, so I started testing my glucose, and my morning fast numbers are about 6.5 - 6.9, but I forgot to eat for 13 hours and they went up to 8.3. Have just been to the GP this morning to say I am worried about these numbers and I may be going into pre-diabets, but she said that there is nothing to worry about and she wishes I didnt buy a tester.

 

[Freema]

Sounds familiar I thought I was almost pre-diabetic with an HB thingy at 41, so I started testing my glucose, and my morning fast numbers are about 6.5 - 6.9, but I forgot to eat for 13 hours and they went up to 8.3. Have just been to the GP this morning to say I am worried about these numbers and I may be going into pre-diabets, but she said that there is nothing to worry about and she wishes I didnt buy a tester.

welI still think it is a good thing to have a meter if one is in the area of being diabetic

 

[Ange G]

Lol about monior, my GP was horrified about the amount of times I test, 4-5 times a day and my sister thinks I'm just weird!!! My argument is how can I manage my bloods if I don't know what's going on and my GP did actually agree and let me win that argument!! Having said that, I did test fingers on both hands and got 6.5 on one and 7.9 on the other so I thought I would try my big toes and I got a consistent figure of 7.5 on both..... I think my sister might have won her argument!!!!!

 

[BarbaraG]

Sounds familiar I thought I was almost pre-diabetic with an HB thingy at 41, so I started testing my glucose, and my morning fast numbers are about 6.5 - 6.9, but I forgot to eat for 13 hours and they went up to 8.3. Have just been to the GP this morning to say I am worried about these numbers and I may be going into pre-diabets, but she said that there is nothing to worry about and she wishes I didnt buy a tester.

Your GP is just wrong. Even within the normal range, higher HbA1C translates to increased risk of cardiovascular problems. Do yourself a favour - carry on testing and adjust your diet accordingly.

 

[Ange G]

Absolutely BarbaraG, I have no intentions of stopping my regular testing it is the only way to know and act on my readings.

 

[Kittylitter]

Your GP is just wrong. Even within the normal range, higher HbA1C translates to increased risk of cardiovascular problems. Do yourself a favour - carry on testing and adjust your diet accordingly.

I intend to, thank you - I didnt even go back to sugar in my tea - and that was a real pain to give-up.

 

[Kittylitter]

Yes it will usually goes up before it comes down...for some people it could take a couple of sessions more of intermittent fasting. For others it may require even longer multi-day fast 3-5 days for more immediate change. But at the end of the day, what we want is a sustainable change.

But when we focus on managing post meal glucose, the fasting glucose level will normalize gradually.

I agree with this, after 13 hours of fasting as I had forgotten to eat; my level was 8.3, and today after 12 hours it was 5.5, so it does go up, before it comes down.